picnic

EDIT: Summary; The Tao is the Tao, until you give it rules. Patterns in cycles is all we can see, and in them, change is inherent. I say the Buddha was not a Buddhist and Lau Tzu was not a Taoist. Buddhist for example is someone on the path to Buddhahood, so once the goal is reached they are not longer a Buddhist, but a Buddha, or one who is awake. The Buddha is also the only one guy in Buddhism that did not get hung up reading books on Buddhism. Lau Tzu never studied the Tao Te Ching, he studied life and wrote the book. As for the "rules" of nature, "it may rain, if a Tiger bites you, you may die, if you hit someone, you may get hit back... " It is always midday somewhere, it is always day and always night, somewhere. In a desert it is nearly always dry, at sea it is often windy, .. Tao is, if anything, relativity and balance, to say, ok, I will take my raincoat in a bag in case it rains. In Thailand, where days and nights are pretty much 12 hours each all the year, it rains for 3 months and is dry for 9, the rain may still catch you in the sunny season, a dry spell may catch you in the rainy. Then ask a Newzealander or English person when the next rain will be, and they will tell you to wait 30 minutes. At any time of year it can and does rain, as and when it pleases. When we look at nature we see great and small cycles, these cycles are part of a greater cycle, up and up, down and down. Many cycles affect one another, even if they don't appear to, then they are all linked, are all one. That is true, cycles, patterns. Yet, put people in a foreign country and ask them to predict rain... They may get it wrong more than right. For sure it will rain one day, when? Ask them to place a two sticks where the shadows will align at 10am. They could do it after a few days, not one. In their own forest, they could do it straight away, in a foreign land, not. You could say that the one rule is death, yet we know that death too is a cycle, so the rule becomes deaths plural not singular, and there too we see a cycle. Rules are in fact patterns that appear strict by their relativity to our own patterns. Flexibility to possibilities is the way, is it not?

Thanks for that addition we now have 3 versions of Immortality; 1) You are (an aspect of) the immortal Tao so do and have lived forever 2) You can train your spirit to live on forever, choosing a new body if you wish 3) You can train your existing body to not age, and not die nice, i'd say that's it, any more?

I really enjoyed it too maybe it's time for a reviewing..

Thanks Mark that is one of a few Taoist views that I would expect to hear. It is the reason that I will say I have no religion, not even taoism if anyone asks me. I say that I know Tao is the supreme principal but I am not a Taoist. It is interesting to hear the Taoist words as they contain some of the original pointing to the Tao (of course, that which can not be directly known) and then veer off to more typical religious notions of hierarchies, musts and must nots; which are in my view against Tao by their strict nature. How can the way of water, the way of Tao, or any natural way have strict rules ? EDIT: spelling

animals, trees, those who do not ask questions and are happy to grow and decay with nature must be best off (not that i can vouch for any of them). I have considered life as a tree, water buffalo and dog in a dog loving house, to all be good. The only risk the dog has is that an overly loving owner could over-feed them to a point of obesity. As for ageing, the key would be yielding and flexibility. Set ways and a set mind are the route to stiffening for the coffin. A flexible open mind, is healthy and happy for old and young. There is definitely a Tao Te Ching passage saying just that, and more clearly, but I won't dig it out.

http://kephas.podomatic.com/ "Stormy Weather is a weekly podcast that covers subjects such as shamanism, alien abduction, global conspiracies, occultism, mythology, DNA, Masonic Sorcery Theater, postmodern society, and the day-to-day struggle of the creative individual to navigate an increasingly apocalyptic environment." ---- http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=Holofractalist "a growing collection of interesting videos, talks and animations centering on the mind, reality and science" ....

We have no choice but to be infinity. If there is infinity, and there must be, then there is no allowance for infinity plus "John". The whole toil for "I" to become enlightened is false as enlightenment is to see there is no "I" who could possibly be. If no I can be then there is no I to become enlightened.

(it could be that...) ...Happiness is; to not want to change a thing.

yes, i would say I am Yet the poor by the comparison. Give a "westerner" the same cash and they would be deeply miserable, the "poor" on the same cash (not much, no superfluous) are happy, that would include my wife and her family who i just asked directly. Of course "poor poor" is a struggle, the ones who are happy out of them would be a sever minority. They are unfortunately a big bulk of the worlds populous, forced into that way by the greed of the super wealthy and there is no clearer example of Tao than that! sorry if i don't seem to answer questions very well, I don't look at life as a statistician but as a student of the way. EDIT: deleted double paste

I would say that to boil it down to basics, we would say that buying a car or iPod is a transient non-lasting form of (not real) happiness. Happiness could well be living in the moment, grabbing a bunch of friends, eating well together, sharing fun with strangers who pass by. That is only achievable for the large portion of the population in a (so called) developing nation. Mr average could not do that too often in the UK but mr well-below-average could do that almost daily in india.

I tried but it became very long winded so i deleted. I will perhaps try again soon.

This rework of a saying seems to fit... "If the (financially) rich and the poor man both lose all they have... who suffers more?"

Re: GDP GNP and so on; I think it was the king of Bhutan who said we measure GNH, Gross National Happiness. I saw most happiness in india, vietnam, very much in Lao, cambodia, a lot in thailand. Less in the states, uk, australia. Happiness is after all from within; happiness gained from outside is transient, and we all know the difference there in those nations. One lot chase the external world, and one lot radiate from the inner. Even those with seemingly very little have a wonderful outlook and don't crave anything else, at least if they do, it is not to the detriment of the there and then. My wife is the happiest person I know, she keeps life simple, knows what matters, understands the way, and warms people.

"To draw a conclusion, is to say your mind is no longer open." "An open mind never concludes. A closed mind said this"

yawn::: *drinks green tea* ...............

nice, thanks

i remember now, i did read that book. I enjoyed the guys novel, a story based in old China and some monks with great fighting power. It was an enjoyable story but that's all. The book you mention is a companion to another of his books, it was nice, but did not leave a big impression on me. I hope you enjoy it

never heard of it, many Tao books are good, depending mainly in the authors understanding. I would say that reading as many translations of Tao Te Ching, then Chuang Tzu would be the best start

wei wu wei excerpts from his books, somewhere between Zen and Tao, all very nice. spoken tao te ching an audio book, tao te ching spoken.

this quigong guy (movie) seems to have electricity he can emit from his chakras.

i found some of my favourite quotes to add... We do not possess an 'ego'. We are possessed by the idea of one. * * * All the evil in the world, and all the unhappiness, comes from the I-concept. * * * A myriad bubbles were floating on the surface of a stream. 'What are you?' I cried to them as they drifted by. 'I am a bubble, of course' nearly a myriad bubbles answered, and there was surprise and indignation in their voices as they passed. But, here and there, a lonely bubble answered, 'We are this stream', and there was neither surprise nor indignation in their voices, but just a quiet certitude. * * * "life is fucking awesome" - (the buddha)

i'm happy!

there is lots of info here (8 hours) first 4 hours last 4 hours enjoy

ah ha then we have to ask the small child. My small child test is how I would have nations governed or solve any tricky issues. Situation: -Any situation e.g. is this right or fair? Solution: -Ask the 4 year old child. Their word is law.