deci belle

When you begin to stop following your thoughts And cannot seem to comprehend traces of grasping or rejection You still adapt to circumstances While awaiting the cues of potential. By sticking to the inevitable timing impersonally Without abandoning the characteristics of phenomena, You discover the strange forces of hidden periods. East Mountain walks on water. Even before seeing essential nature The accomplishment is a model for the work: Enlightenment isn't one's entry into innocence. This innocence is beyond life itself. In the midst of the killing energy You smile from inside out Completely free of knowledge. The work after the accomplishment is realization. Complete reality is where people become buddhas And buddhas become people. Now the alchemical furnace and cauldron Are set up again for advanced practice. In surpassing this you eliminate inner vision entirely. Sublimating oneself physically and spiritually, You knock over the polar mountain And shatter cosmic space Becoming the same as reality. Suddenly the gradual arrives complete; The result is your natural independence Reality perpetually on the brink. Who knew it has never moved? ed note: change to "walks" in 8th line; "This + is beyond" in 3rd stanza

Oh manitou❤❤ Suuuch a lovely note to see that you have left for me and the bums who will also read it!! manitou wrote: ed note: add a bit of what manitou wrote!

It is not seen. There is no method of enlightenment. One does not do this; not only does one not do this; it is not done. The accomplishment of the world-honored is not self. There is no analysis. Comprehension of cessation is not comprehended— much less by oneself. Thought is Gate, gate, paragate, parasamgate. Just this bodhi svaha. Cessation itself is awareness of selfless knowledge. There is nothing whatsoever for you to get all excited about. Stop splashing, fishy.

Thank you, Brian! What I mean by this is that people have no way of knowing by appearances that one's own spontaneous adaption to situations is transcendent activity. It isn't a big deal that one doesn't go along with creation— it's just a fact. Immortalists steal potential and take over creation unbeknownst to anyone. The classics aren't really about philosophically interpretive discussion. They are codebooks for one's own entry into the inconceivable. I only mention these things on this forum— in terms of direct experience. This subject isn't really Buddhism or Taoism at all. This mystery is something that people have discovered about their inherent aware nature and these well-known traditions are a venue for keeping the knowledge alive. It is paradoxical that there are really very few people penetrating the source of these teachings who also are not attached to the traditions themselves. One's own mind not being buddhism or taoism is a wonderous affair. Though the writings of the classics by enlightened teachers should be an aid to one's own discovery of inherent transcendent Unity, usually people arrive at an adherence to scriptural associations that become inapplicable in the context of ordinary everyday situations outside of rote practice. Subtle observation of mind, one's own mind, in the context of actual situations in light of powerful penetration and absorption of intense, far-reaching profound study of the classics keyed to the nature of awareness itself beyond any codifications is the way to not only see through to the source of the purpose of the authentic traditions, but to see through creation itself and become its equal.

Chapter 48 Those who seek learning gain every day those who seek the Way lose every day they lose and they lose until they have nothing to do nothing to do means nothing not done… I say that those who see their nature are able to lose without exercising knowledge, therefore they lose whether they know it or not.

Yes mr P! I dug this up from the Contributed articles section but altered the 2nd line of the 1st stanza and the first line about innocence. In this version, I changed the 2nd line's reference to traces of enlightenment (which are to be gotten rid of) to a reference to one's former relationships with social conditioning. The second change was about innocence, which is said not to be dependent on sudden realization, because the application of its function is selfless activity which is only dependent on one's degree of self-refinement. In its earlier application, I was referring to innocence as experiencing non-being in terms of sudden illumination. In general, what I write about here on this forum is relative to one's natural development of enlightening activity in terms of entering the mystery itself naturally inherent in oneself. I want people to know that it is not dependent on sudden realization. Sudden illumination is the cessation of self and reversion to the nonorigination of one's inherent essential nature, Mind as is; one's own awareness right now. This is why nothing is gained by suddenly awakening to complete perfect enlightenment. The gradual path and the all-at-once are one, in terms of entering the inconceivable mystery of the nature of awareness. Even so, the experience of sudden illumination is just the entry-level experience; as an unmistakeable signpost in terms of entry on the authentic path of prior illuminates, it should be viewed as a beginning of the gradual path of self-refinement in the aftermath of the sudden. It is oneself becoming an expression of nonbeing within being that is the actualization of the virtue of the Way. The fact that reality is on the brink in perpetuity, is the reason why one is already innocent. This is because once one begins to see potential, and therefore realizes that essence has never moved, therefore one has no reason to go along with conditioned compulsions perpetuated by karmic awareness. Enlightening action is only real in terms of spontaneous response. The pivot of awareness is the Center of the being that is going to die. As this Center is activated by openness, its function is called the Virtue of the Receptive. The term is found in the Classic on the Yin Convergence. If one can abide in this center of potential and equipoise, and not go along with creation, then one essentially does nothing to adapt to conditions selflessly. It is not a matter of invulnerability. On the contrary, one is ultimately vulnerable. Though no one knows the reality, in spite of appearances, one, in fact, has transcended the world. In non-action that responds to conditions, one has nothing to do with karmic evolution. Though many talk endlessly on the idea conveyed by the words wu-wei, hardly anyone knows the reason for there being words to that effect in the first place. There is its potential and its attributes, but it is mentioned in the ancient classics by virtue of its function that people themselves have come to partake of in terms of transcending creation. The Tao Te Ching is simply the record of talismanic function relative to immortal activity in the world. If one can begin to see the classics in this way outside of philosophical or spiritual theoretics and wonder intensely on the source of this perspective without entertaining self-reifying compulsive arbitrary action to the point of forgetting to eat and sleep, one will eventually stumble onto the celestial mechanism without meaning to and actually find respite in the strange forces of hidden periods, thereby to become a partner of creation, not subject to it. Sudden illumination is the result of such application of wonder and open intent. ed note: add last line in 5th paragraph

How wonderful, infinity.❤

The "What is Grasping?" thread was steered (almost immediately by its author into a discussion about how clairvoyance was somehow (interpreting a certain buddhist scripture) to be deemed advantageous or even necessary to seeing essence (experiencing sudden enlightenment). I don't want to rag on that person's own thread anymore but I did want to stress that clairvoyance does not give anyone a leg-up on enlightenment— and for good reason. I will try to be as direct as possible in describing why. First, I've never heard the claim before, and its reference to scripture gives it much more importance than it warrants to one so gifted with clairvoyance, because, in terms of realizing ones essential nature, it then becomes an obstruction of one's own making (aren't they all). 2nd, the TTC exhausts the topic of augury in one line (chapter 38). 3rd, The Art of War goes as far as citing that its use is to be dispensed with entirely. 4th, the bum is simply in error coming to the conclusion that clairvoyance has any merit in terms of a gradual self-refinement leading to cessation of self because it causes one to cling to identification with that (false) self— and that is NOT advantageous. I'm not clairvoyant so I know it isn't at all valid to assume that the ability to see that which has not yet come to pass is necessary to adapt selflessly to ordinary situations in the present— much less to see essence and enter the Tao in reality. There is not a single thing wrong with being clairvoyant, but if one is going to entertain the view that this self-reifying condition is one that pre-disposes one to the fast-track leading to sudden realization (not to mention arriving at a virtue coeval with the subtle operation of the Great Vehicle of buddhas, one is even more handicapped than an ordinary ignoramus. Why? Because views relative to self and other are the very reason for being sunk in delusion in the first place. And one so handicapped is doubly in error for being deluded (without knowing it) for one, then actually going to the trouble to manufacture and cling to the notion that a conditional characteristic relative to the false identity is somehow to be entertained as an advantage (in terms of the scriptural interpretation), that's two. I realize the bum is not lording that interpretation over anybody else, or making claims how clairvoyance is indicative of an aspect of clarity (my take~ and it's true), but it is completely fallacious (and harmful to one's aspiration) none the less, to grasp this notion of clairvoyance ascribed to scripture on account of possessing its utility in the first place. This is only because grasping self-concepts (or any views at all) are what keeps people bound by the personality's false identity. And that isn't even that subtle a veil. I lied about my clairvoyance, but it is just part of the landscape (in my case). The bum had the idea that immediate knowledge is somehow relative to one's own volition, and this is simply not the case, for we all know (or should know) that ordinary sensory perception relative to self and other is NEVER able to occur in the present. Therefore, immediate knowledge is not relative to oneself, i.e., it is selfless knowledge. Just this itself is enlightened mind, no different that one's own unborn nature. Nothing whatsoever has a leg-up on presence, which is the root of the Way. Wisdom is easy. What is difficult is in not using it. The Tao Te Ching says "Augury is the flower of the Way, and the beginning of delusion." For those whose desire is the realization of the cessation of the grasping mind would do well to forget views of self and make naught of them— even if scripture lauds it to the skies. This is the way to make destiny dependent on oneself alone.

This topic is really a litmus test. If you know better, you get it and you get to know me. If you think you know better, but don't get this, you really don't, so you won't. Either way, its not a problem. I've put this up for the last few years every time a new batch of bums with excessive scriptural and psychic fight energy (often in the Spring) wanna butt heads. Don't. You'll loose, whether you know it or not. ed note: add "Don't, etc"

I highly recommend climbing 1000 meter vertical granite or relatively steep alpine walls at altitude. It is a very effective method for maintaining concentration in the face of occasionally almost certain danger and sometimes nearly avoidable death/carnage. Even climbing relatively short cliffs over crashing ocean waves is found to be extremely helpful. Solo-climbing without safety equipment sharpens one's degree of concentration and mindfulness. Don't even think about falling! Attending to the task at hand is sufficient in spite of the objective realities and trains the mind and body to exercise equipoise under extreme psychological pressure and physical hardship.

Oh a new batch of mettlesome self-annointed dharma-slingers battling their wits out… yawn.

Of the first water~ that would be snow …or ice— and preferably the vertical kind.

Le Capitain is infatuated~ don't you dharma-clods know anything?!! Mon Capitain~ they are a thousand times the fool Vous are!!❤❤ How could they possible know what true madness is, hmmmm? hahahhaaa!!❤

poofs!

oh, it's the ChiForce/TI tag team!! …ugh. Well, since you're done, dear~ I guess I'll have to clean up that little mess you left… Immediate knowledge (once again) is not "yours". When you recive, this is not impersonally aware. If you want to wax poetic about your paranormal premiere screenings, consider starting you own thread to that effect, dear. You could call it "ChiForce's Chinese Firedrill Theater". Immediate knowledge is NOW, in the context of REAL-TIME situations, not shit yer gonna see on TV anyway (even if ya saw it first). How does your hodge-podge para-normalism equate "frighteningly beautiful" with reality, which is ordinary situations accessible to illumined and ignoramus alike without distinctions of self and other? Immediate knowledge isn't a matter of no distictions— it is the impersonal vision of nonbeing within the context of creation. It isn't visible and it doesn't look any different from reality …because it is reality. Since there are "no distinctions" within the particular (in terms of the absolute only— which Mr Force failed to distinguish), how do you equivocate "real" events in your mind with "no distinctions", hmmmmmm? Perhaps it is because you have no perspective of the one to distinguish from the other? You are the equal of mr Ice in that you are happy as a clam to talk out of both sides of your mouth free-associating world-events that can be seen with the naked eye (with purely technological satellite imagery) without ever having had benefit of the perspective of your original face. Those who receive paranormal visions of events all are sure to notice anyway are not worth recounting in the first place. Even sudden mystic illumination is categorically cryptic, at best, in terms of something that could be even remotely distinguished as imagery (that no one whatsoever witnesses), whereas mr Force's film-reel visions, are just like the movies (director's cut, no doubt)! Being an a priori witness is not adapting to situations impersonally. It is just indicative of an habitual relationship with naturally impersonal awareness that sets oneself apart from appearances and deems this "objective reception", as if it were bestowed upon oneself due to clair-whatever-ance. What is seen beyond the realm of distinctions (nothing mr Force has been willing to recount) is what is available to those whose reception in terms of immediate knowledge is impersonally, immaterially manifest, no different than the clear immaterial light of potential inherent within the DNA of ordinary situations (the nature of your own mind)— in order to spontaneously adapt to, and influence, the creative impersonally. So were you able to influence the distinctless events in Japan to your satisfaction, mr Force? ed note: add "spontaneously" in penultimate line

The thing about grasping is the nature of the false identity of the unreal personality. The pointless point skewers it, the gateless gate traps it, and the hookless hook catches it. And the further afield this fish goes the longer it trails its own line, until you have a real whopper stinking in a fry-pan to suit. I see you are singing your own anthem here, mr Ice~ So it doesn't matter how many fish-heads you split into because for every one that can's swallow the hook, there's another that can't spit it out. And in spite of all these posturing heads I see there is but one shadow searching for its face. Either you realize or you don't, so there is nothing factual in conceptually getting closer to the one realization you are already swimming in right now. It is neither near nor far. Until you can swallow the entire ocean in a single gulp, what constitutes arrival? You actually must take total responsibility for reality. This is the meaning of power. It's not just a matter of full-blown peeking into the future. In the mean-time, where can this fish go? Pity.

Nungali wrote: The agenda is that identifying characteristics in terms of oneself (much less as an advantage to transcending self) is error. I do not want people to be in error (especially) as a result of their own gifts, dear. What's your agenda, hmmmmmmm? Tibetan Ice ought to quote A LOT LESS!! I didn't say they were your words~ but at this point I wish they were! If you cannot see your subtle error and dispense with the need to validate your full-blown clairvoyance (to quote you), and just rest in the presence of your own immediate nonpsychological knowledge, selflessly adapting to ordinary circumstances~ you won't even miss what isn't working for your best interests in the least. Now I know I've got a fish on the line… hook, line and sinker. hahhahahhaaa❤ ed note: add response to TI's post (that I didn't read)

One does not use immediate knowledge. Awareness is the nature of enlightenment itself; mind is one. It IS you, it's not good for you. I don't do or know— so please consider dropping the congratulatory posture, dear. I don't need it. As it is, you are stuck in you other mind right now. You have nothing to explain or justify to one who has seen the absence of knowledge. Clairvoyance is augury; "Augury is the flower of the Way… and the beginning of delusion" (Chapter 38). May I suggest you recognize your attachment to the flower of the Way and realize how far it is from its root. Then you might go as far as to refer to the title of this thread~ is your question indicative of rhetoric or a function of self-refinement? It seems to be the former.

It is ok for one to temporarily hedge one's bets in terms of the gradual~ but the gradual has no beginning, nor does it end. Likewise, the absolute is not a separate reality in terms of the gradual. The mystery is Complete Reality. The Virtue of the Receptive is enlightening function incipiently flowing as the Dharma-eye inherent within conditions. Seeing is not self-reifying~ just one's sensitive, effective, unperturbable selflessly aware nature— no different than reality. The Dharma-eye is immediate knowledge. One is not in a position to develop what is inherent. The process of self-refinement is an open-ended continuum. Our approach must be utterly open, total and over-arching. Even after the sudden realization of open nonorigination, the gradual is still continuous. There is no end to the depth of the selfless Mystery. In the aftermath of the sudden, one can take advantage of the fact that psychic compulsion is eliminated, but one has not gained anything. In fact, one must continue the process of loss to pass through one's own fascinations with creation, not to mention the overwhelming experience of the absolute. It is not that there are or have ever been any kind of barrier(s) in existence relative to a self-conditioned psychic awareness to impede endless transformations in the midst of endless changes. It is just forgetting self, feelings, thoughts. This is because self-reflective consciousness is what constitutes the separate identity to begin with. The gradual approach is dealing with the conditional— buddhas are not exempt. The sudden is not just inherent in the gradual… it is the nature of immediate knowledge itself; the light of unity inherent in creation. In the microcosm of ordinary situations to the macrocosm of cosmic unity, the process is identical. In seeing through particulars, one learns to deal with reality (essence) directly. In so doing (which is a matter of not-doing), one transforms karmic energy back into potential by selfless adaption to ordinary cycles in the context of everyday situations. Beyond stillness and movement, one stores potential void of intellectualism. The process of maturation of the foregoing has no corollary. Padmasambhava's "occasional rejuvenation of the pristine awareness" comes close. Reality is one. Mind is one. Just this is it without beginning. A taoist statement is "One topples the polar mountain, shatters space and sublimates oneself physically and spiritually to enter the Tao in reality". In terms of the gradual, entry into inconceivability is never-ending. In terms of all-at-once, sameness has never entered the creative, so one's form being formlessness is itself transcendence. This is selfless unity in terms of potential in perpetuity. Whether or not one sees, the dharma-eye is open. It is not a matter of ability relative to oneself, rather the function of enlightening being is itself universal. The dharma-eye is not a thing, nor is it an ability relative to the person because the function of seeing is the activation of one's impersonally aware nature which is not gained by awakening to it. Since one is not in a position to develop the inherent function, it is a matter of awakening to it and learning the subtlety of its function. This is not in any way dependent on the sudden. The sudden is just an indication of one's efficacy in terms of a practical harmonization with Suchness as is. When a supersonic craft goes faster that the speed of sound~ there's a b00m! Sudden enlightenment is just a sympathetic resonation with one's activated presence unable to be confined within the confines of creation. As such, it is not even oneself that achieves this. The event is an utterly impersonal phenomena. Relying on scripture is a purloined path. Ultimately, there is no thing. This means there are no explanations. The descriptions left behind by prior illuminates can only be referred to in terms of experience matching potential to creation. After all, the authentic teachings were written by enlightening beings from the perspective of enlightening beings. In other words, since no one is not already thus, Buddha said, "refer everything to the self" (in terms of experience, not views). Recreational philosophy references everything to the words as if they mean something— as if the words are relative to inconceivability. If one is bound by words (rational thought) to begin with, this is never resultant in any kind of real power because words themselves are the reason people come to learn that they have a self, which is pure bondage. Selflessness is realized by virtue of forgetting one exists, and this comes about by forgetting words. It is a fact. If you are not dependent on words, you know freedom. True freedom is an effect of lightness that has no bounds in terms of self, culture, worlds, being. Granted, knowledge is embedded in the symbology, but there is no meaning per se, because reality is inconceivability— which is what symbology is able to impart. Philosophy, is necessarily bound by conceptual, rational thought. Adepts are such by a long process of detachment. With not even nothing to cling to, eventually, after a long time, one arrives at the function, and effect, of the totality of oneself, which is selfless. Honzhi said, "Just trust your luck, accept your function and take the forward step with open hands, innocent". Even now, just this is it.

In terms of "If you are not there yet"… one has never left this. It is just that one is unaware of it. As far as heightened awareness and clairvoyance being necessary to realizing essence goes …well, being a full-blown clairvoyant obviously isn't that big a deal then, is it, because one possessing these qualities isn't realizing this essence now. Immediate knowledge covers all these concerns adequately. Furthermore, Immediate knowledge just is as is according to circumstances. Prescience is the flower of the Way, not its root. In terms of the OP: In terms of the subtlety required by the situation, perhaps not reaching for it at the most subtle level would suffice for a substitute phrase, i.e., not grasping? Even in acceptance, there is still an indication of one not yet… (identified as space itself) implied. I used to enter into these states and hang out, now I don't.

I believe an attorney was employed in that re-write of Gautama's original quote, Mark!! And so, …one might then begin to actively respond selflessly to situations with single-minded concentration.

Absolutely. The best way is to start doing it at all. Eventually, depending on your presence of mind, the idea of "other things" will cease to exist, and you will simply be awake. Then one needn't practice in leu of presence, continuous presence of mind. So then to meditate or do energy-work, much less other things too, will be a concern of someone else …someone who never existed.

Rocky said: There is a classic taoist technical definition of balance and harmony. Balance is one's psychological state before feelings arise; harmony is adapting to the situation after feeling arise. Being stuck with external judgements is the result of accruing them. A good exercise is analyzing the mechanism of how this comes about. You will find that you will never come to the end of it as thoughts come from nowhere. You might eventually arrive at the conclusion that the problem probably isn't the judgements themselves~ it's just having them at all!! This realization can be called pacifying your own mind. We all go through these seemingly endless loops, like a stupid song that won't stop playing in our heads. They just are. These are a reality we create and sustain ourselves. The real problem/solution is just forgetting them. Whether one is a buddha or an ignoramus makes no difference. In fact, the only difference between a buddha and an ignoramus is that an ignoramus cannot forget thoughts and feelings as they arise. Why? Because they arise unawares. In order to avoid this, one must be able to see thoughts and feelings as they arise. If one doesn't see thoughts and feelings as they arise, one is simply not being mindful. Following thoughts and feelings arising unawares is the working definition of delusion. Mindfulness is practicing subtle observation of mind 24/7. It's just a subtle continuity of concentrated awareness. There is no higher meditation. Nothing compares to the effective power of self-refinement of simply observing mind at all times. Formal meditation is for those with weak minds— it is nothing more than a temporary expedient until one gains the presence of mind to subtly observe the mind-monkey at all times whether standing, walking sitting or lying down. So, what you are describing as vexing is the fact that you are aware of your delusion— Yay!! That's a good thing!! The only thing one can do (to arrive at buddhahood, see your nature, and clarify yourself) is to practice subtle observation for a long, long time until you eventually arrive at habitually seeing your thoughts and feeling arise as they arise. Why? So you won't follow them at all, much less without knowing it.

Merciiii, mr P❤

I want to stress that even though this statement may sound like a nod to sudden illumination, it is not. Whenever one adapts impersonally to situations in the course ordinary affairs, one frees a bit of unrefined potential from the matrix of karmic evolution and has, in truth, taken over creation in so doing. One must then immediately secrete this immaterial nonpsychological potential in the space formed by sincere intent void of intellectualism and store it there in innocence until it reaches maturity whereby it naturally turns into a grain of elixir, forever incorruptible. This is also how destiny is up to oneself alone. Overall, the term is originally a euphemism for taking the polluted energy of creation and refining it into essence. One does this oneself in secret. It is up to oneself alone, and no one knows. Since creation cannot hold one who is outside of its influence, would not destiny be up to oneself alone?