deci belle

Because mr V only knows how to quote~ and quote very well, thank you. He just wants to be free to spray canvases of others' truths with splotches of his own fanciful flurries ala Jackson Pollock. Mr V sez: You can evidently, but someone who has seen their nature can't. Dependent origination is self evident …don't they call that evolution? You don't need to see your nature to realize dependent origination, you need to see your nature to be able to assess what selfless adaption to dependent origination is. Also, your emptiness isn't empty, unless of course, you haven't seen your nature. Furthermore, anyone operating at the velocity of your terminal neurosis would conclude that energy does not exist in the present. Naturally if you could come from a point of presence and stay there in perpetuity, it would be obvious there has never been any other place or time. The present moment is the most ancient/fresh moment and the most erotic too. Do you make love in the future or the past, mr V? Too bad no one loves you in the present…❤ You'd have to slow down to find out, hmmmmmm? What is realized is nonorigination, dear mr V. The uncreated is what one suddenly realizes is their nature. Uncreated, aware, perpetually ready at the brink of action~ yet never having moved. The void is empty of emptiness as well. This is what is termed "beginningless", because it has never fallen into the created. This is not a definition, it is a description. You can quote me. Dependent origination is the working definition of karmic evolution. Since enlightening beings operate within the matrix of dependency and adapt to conditions on creation's terms, meeting creation with one's own inherent spontaneous nature; enlightening activity is matching one's potential inherent in the conditioned situation itself; (bodhissatva is just a working term to denote one's function in terms of the relative realm— that's inconceivable Reality on the temporal plane) therefore buddhas demonstrate that separate identity is nonexistent— that's how we use the energy potential comprising the situation itself to resolve the temporal within the absolute. It is also how we prove that there is nothing to be free of. Buddhas don't have to be free of anything because nothing is not themselves. Dependent origination has no reality outside delusion because reality itself is causeless, ie, no beginning, reason or being. Selflessness is just the natural state. For you to state otherwise is indicative of a bit of philosophical confusion on your part— not to mention the fact that you have not seen your nature. Therefore those who have seen their nature know they have no intrinsic identity in terms of self and other, nor is there such a thing as absolute dependent origination outside of deluded human mentalities habituated to the illusion of separate identity. It may very well be another one of your pet theories based on your intellectually neurotic understanding, perhaps? Mr V has made a career of hosing his contributions with suuuucha breadth of quotes and sources, that there is no way to respond sincerely without getting bogged down in his subterfuges of trivial data. Dear bums, any attempt to meet mr V's intellectual neurosis on its terms is to fall prey to its sickness of understanding. In terms of the real, understanding is the realm of delusion itself. The reason Bodhidharma said "don't know", is because that is the only way to step over eternity and transcend deluded notions of emptiness. I recommend not-knowing highly. If only it was possible to assess inconceivability other than to experience your nature. It's not. Even seeing your nature has its considerations in the aftermath of realization. I wonder why mr V has never mentioned that? Mainly it is working through developing attachment to the overwhelming experience of the absolute which is no different than one's prior attachment to conditioning. Both are delusion. That's why the middle way is neither absolute nor conditional. True emptiness is not empty. The living void is the realm of potential in terms of absolute and temporal in the presence of ordinary everyday existence. This is the realm of people becoming buddhas and buddhas becoming people. I would say a bodhissatva is one who may be just learning the ropes of the living void— but realization is one, and it only happens once. Buddhas have no choice~ I assure you, bodhissatvas have no such discrimination to choose whether or not to do anything in terms of coming or going. As embodiments of enlightening activity, the absolute has never decided anything. The freedom of enlightened being is the freedom from deciding. There is simply no need. One just knows the time and acts according to it. Furthermore, the movement and stillness of enlightening being is one. Again, deciding is something irrelevant to enlightened activity. You can just bury this short post with quotes, mr V~ if it is worth it to you, but even if you can recite the taoist, buddhist, and confucian canons… yours is the teaching of a mortal, not a buddha. Piling intellectual extremism on top of the neurosis of conventional self-reflective understanding has no basis in applications of enlightening activity, because reality has no such understanding, nor is it attributable to the world honored teaching traditions. The Way itself has no such culture of wisdom or understanding or adaption. It is inconceivable and utterly unattributable. Reality as such, has no basis in words, understanding, wisdom or relative conditions or self-identity. If any of you knew your nature, you could not possibly desire to go along with this endless neurotic flow. Perhaps you all cannot get enough of it on your own. Carry on mr V!!❤

oh? Sounds like you're talking about me~ except for the wishy-washy part.❤

Well, at least sum bums now know how I fell when I try to read Dogen! Oh, dear… Self-reflection clouds natural impersonal awareness in terms of an objective reality of ordinary situations. It is possible to assess situations and respond spontaneously to the very conditions dictated by temporal affairs by cultivating the habit of non-interference. It is not a matter of imaginary separateness, but rather resting readily in the perspective of nonspeculative nonavoidance. Neither avoiding nor defining the inevitable nor speculating on outcomes is close. At first it is a ploy to gain detachment from internal and external bedevilments in order to save energy, but eventually it becomes the strategy to take over creation and steal potential. Further still, it is the means by which enlightening beings carry out tasks and fulfill accomplishments in secret. It just comes back to using the world for self-refinement instead of self-gratification. In terms of self-refinement we develop the habit of not seeing situations as arenas for speculation. When we have nothing potentially invested, we develop autonomy— which is more evolved than raw sensual detachment of the lower vehicles of formative moralities of renunciation. When we refuse to invest ourselves in terms of potential, we gain that potential— it is unsaid. The rule is not using what is seen; and using what is not seen. Not using is not having attachment, however subtle, to objects, situations or outcomes; using is in not-using potential. We see potential by not speculating on inert temporal manifestations; we steal it by seeing it. It is the way it is for no reason. No one knows why. So by not speculating on temporal manifestations and by not deciding what potential is naturally inherent in any given situation, and refusing to entertain intellectual ramifications, we absorb potential just by virtue of seeing— this how to use it. When we then relegate potential to nonpsychological awareness, we don't even say what it could possibly be to ourselves. That is what seals it away. No one knows that or what we strategically aren't knowing. All that those who steal potential know, is that potential is not inevitability …yet, and in terms of inconceivability, to the degree we absorb potential in the course of ordinary everyday affairs, we enter the mystery. Just responding to affairs without speculation on outcomes is selfless adaption. Ok, so it's crazy; but that is the secret to taking over creation, stealing potential, and seeing through phenomena without negating appearances. It all depends on selfless awareness. That is, our habitual perception is gradually influenced to have no habitual, reflexive connection to gratifying or avoiding sensually speculative concerns. By sensual, I mean anything perceivable by any avenue of perception— this isn't just a matter of sex, drugs, money, power, personal or professional influence or cravings of any sort. It is much more subtle, and pervasive. It is the means by which to transcend one's conditioned awareness of self-illusion and enter the inconceivable mystery of the Way by seeing your nature. This is turning the light of awareness around to shine on its source. This is direct activation of enlightening being in the midst of ordinary affairs unbeknownst to anyone. When we don't use ordinary conditioned awareness to follow ordinary conditioned affairs, then the light of awareness is turned around automatically with no effort involved at all. So the mention of Assessing the Sickness of My Life means nothing~ just forget it and everything will be ok (in more ways than one). haha!!❤

just smoochies pour Vous yumyumz!! Mmwwaaa!!❤

hahahahhahaa!!❤❤❤ I sink zere is quantum realm at boce end ovs ze IQ sexion!! Hoo can say I doont's know!! haha!!❤ ed note… typo in last sentence heehee!!

Strictly speaking, Universal Good is the "source of civilizations" as embodied by Manjushri, in the Flower Ornament Scripture. It is not by virtue of certain locations— it is by timing, which is heaven; conditions, which is by earth and its fecundity; and enlightening evolution, which is by people. In other words, though cultural and biological evolution takes place in the temporal, it is not only that creation is attributable to the inconceivable; creation is itself inconceivable manifestations of the unknowable mysteries of Complete Reality bringing creativity, development, fruition and consummation in endless transformations. This is in no way attributing creation to a "creator", as the conditioned realm and the inconceivable share the selfless nonorigination of aware nature— the uncreated potential selfless aware nature and the temporal mind are the same. There are no two minds. How could the conventional aspect encompass even human culture divorced from the inconceivable source of Universal Good? Even so, there is that which is beyond the tao. In people, Universal Good could be termed the selfless intent of the human body which has no location. It is the reality whereby origin and completion are effected. If I had said celestial design, that would have been more in terms of the workings, the breath of creation; the order of alternation of yin and yang; the knowledge of enlightening operations returning self and other to the source begetting the dichotomy of the two things and consequently one's knowledge of adapting enlightening activity according to the time, situation and local psychological conditions to effect the selfless intent of Universal Good— adapting selflessly to conditions dictated by reality spontaneously, not speculatively. In terms of the political, or cultural, for that matter, there is a critical mass of infinitesimal events leading to trends, chance and struggle~ hardly anything any one element could possibly claim originality for in terms of itself, much less a political body or country. Our very center of real being is just this intent. If one is aware and able, one just carries it out, and that's also Universal Good, and certainly beyond the scope of conventions pertaining to morality, perception and notions of self. ed note: oh god~ I forgot!! (a lot) haha!!

Um …similar? Duh!! There is no difference. Reality is not by a country. Mind is one. You say truth; I say reality. Same. The nagual is unknowability. The tonal is anything you can name. It sure must be entertaining to talk on and on about this stuff!!

Self-refinement is a matter of clarifying the human mentality that only thinks I am without ever knowing that that self is baseless. "Cultivating" reality is gradually refining away the human mentality to the point where self-reflection isn't the primary attribute of mind. Self reflection is valid, but not primal. It should be the servant, not the master. Anyone who knows about farming knows that cultivation is about breaking up and opening the surface crust (ego-reflective habituation) that supports weed growth, in order to allow the underlying earth (primal mind ground of true awareness) to come to the fore.

God, yes. Please.

Oh no! It is not incompatible with sitting practice at all~ to my understanding it starts out at this level precisely because it is a temporary expedient! It then does move on to using the same criteria on more and more subtle levels. There are many who have no intention of recognizing the evolutionary aspect of this "all at once" teaching dealing directly with open clarity from the very start. This is what is the best part of the teaching and is specifically described as such in the text at the beginning of the of the book. I was afraid I might have been misunderstood as being militant about it (having quoted that small part from your post), but it is only that there are those who are complacent to limit their practice to energy-work and fail to make inroads in terms of mind-only discipline alongside energetics~ gradually shifting one's emphasis, because… (I lifted this from a post about Liu I-Ming that also adresses HE's and tccii's dialogue)

Oh yeah!! haha~ I forgot too mention that too …I once heard reports and saw the tufts of dirt poof by having been fired upon— YEEHAAWWW!! I had a train-track embankment to duck behind and ran bent low at the waist for about a half mile. I knew where he was coming from (in more ways than one)… hehe— that's life.

I want Sean to get to the bottom of this. I suspect it is the result of a hit-and-run bum who went by the name of allan. He has his own international taoist blog. Instead of just laying his content down, he was more interested in spraying about certain translators, traditions and his 600-odd spiritual compositions. He wasn't a hit. What can you do about it, Sean?

fatguy from years past is the guy who always talked about himself-and-a-friend always looking for a teacher who will explain this-and-that so t(he)y won't make any mistakes because "a slight slip will result in a great fall". T(he)y probably have more books that a few of us combined. I told him after a few PMs to Just Do It. He called me a fake. haha!! Seems HE got this thread going a year after fatguy's last post. Liu I-Ming is wonderful in that his comprehension is impeccable and he does not suffer from the sicknesses of attachment to teachers, teachings and traditions yet being well-grounded in them all. He also seems to to be free of attachments to energy-work in all its guises. I wish I could say the same for the bulk of the bums. I understand its allure, and understand that one might be willing to settle for second-best in that regard, but in working with the conditional, one is guaranteed to be bound by it. The subtle body has no affinity with the absolute. Only your own everyday ordinary mind has this inherent affinity with the uncreate because it already is the uncreate, albeit deluded by an overlay of habitually conditioned human intellectual identity-reflective cognitive processes bundled up as "ego" which is perpetuated by a beginningless stream of unconscious psychological content constantly coming from and returning to nowhere. Whereas if one can take the forward step and enter the unconditional directly and develop a practice based on the unattributable primal aware nature, one can be assured that all the subtle-body shenanigans that those who settle for less work for will and do manifest spontaneously without the slightest intention or effort. How cool is that?

viator said: Italics mine. If you are doing things that result in any bodily effects, it is obvious this is energy work. This is external. How is this any different than any of the other countless distillations of energetics occurring in terms of yogic application? On page 66 of the last section of Cleary's volume called "Questions and answers Opening up the Mysteries of the Doctrine of the Golden Flower": Does this sound like energy work? Now, does this passage appear in the Wilhelm version? I don't think so.❤ Fixing your attention on anything created is error. Do you know anything uncreated to fix your mind on? What is uncreated is mind itself. This is your own everyday mind before the first thought. Is it still unclear as to the eye of the Golden Flower teaching having nothing to do with energy work? As for sitting meditation, this is only a temporary expedient, not a pastime to be considered practice. Furthermore, where is it mentioned that the fruition of the Golden Flower practice is accomplished in terms of sitting meditation? ULTIMATELY, THIS IS NOT CARRIED OUT IN SITTING MEDITATION. This is a living application of the Way carried out in public in everyday ordinary situations— not in wimpy pusillanimous temperature-controlled sitting-rooms protected from drafts and unsightly real-life conditions. ed note: spell "thoroughly" correctly in 9th paragraph; add 12th paragraph

I found it in our city library in 1993 or so. Hands naturally open, take the forward step.❤ These are direct instructions. Certainly there is much in the way of the five ranks, but even more so, for those who do act without mind, there are direct instructions for applying the living void in the aftermath of realization. This was probably my first real tête a tête with the full force of cao dong Chan.

haha~ ya… Thank you, rainbow!!❤ It made me a little sad— but not sorry, about allan's experience so far here.

allen sez: Reality has no side, no choice, no cause, no good, no bad. Impartiality has no bias or inclination. Heaven is nonpsychological awareness; impersonally objective, awake, open, subtle, serene. If his quote is indicative of heaven's impartiality, it must also be indicative of allan's copious knowledge of it. Universal Good is incompatible with convention; has no basis in a teaching or country. allan's reliance of a particular usage, derivation, and translation was telling in its teaching-centricity. This is a sickness. He started his shill and spray in the big old "Golden Flower" thread by stating his circulating the light approach. This term is the give-away that it is an application of energetics— which although not antithetical to the Golden Flower teaching, it is not the import of the teaching nor can it be termed an even remotely authentic application of the operation of turning the light around described in "mind-only" sections rendered in the document by evolved transmittors. To insist that energetics is the point of the Golden Flower teaching is the height of slander. The breathing, Waterwheel and its derivative exercises are so common and varied in scope~ another version of this MCO trick simply isn't worth the notoriety this document has garnered. It's just the pull of Euro-centricity and its late-to-the-party psycho-celebrity perpetuated by those who may be all to willing to genuflect at the alter of its also-ran, Western Psychology. The buddha admonishes us to refer everything the the self, yet allan only refers to articles, teachings, translators and an international clientele of dharma-buddies, but never once clarifies a single aspect of his practice in terms of experience. Bodhidharma says that "Even if you can explain thousands of sutras and shastras, unless you see your nature, yours is the teaching of a mortal, not a buddha." allan made no indication that the over-arching objective of the Golden Flower teaching is to see your nature. This is not a limitation of the teaching, but rather someone's lack in terms of the kind of teaching one is capable of deriving through practical application, which is in the service of awakening the totality of one's being— not a teaching tradition. I found his culturally-grounded expression staid and his description of application in any kind of context nonexistent. If I were allan, I would post an article in our articles section and see what happens. allan is web-savvy enough to have already attacked me in a way that can only be termed as a nuisance in the google-sphere, so let that speak for itself. I've always gotten to tbms by googling my user-name, then clicking on my tbms profile page link. Now that page has suddenly become a computer-freezer that wants me to "clean my computer" and the only way to get out of it is to unplug my laptop sans battery…so much for the good.❤ ed note: fill in another fat paragraph with run-on sentences…

Don't know anything Don't understand anything Don't seek anything Don't do anything. If by some combination of circumstances You stumble onto Complete Reality And thereby see your original face Thereafter no buddha can touch you. There is your own mind bared The same mind lies right before your feet Why do ignoramuses ask for signposts on the way And attribute Reality to taoism, buddhism and Confucianism? The spiritual quest is wordless; there is no one to ask Enlightened experience is wordless; there is no one to know Enlightening activity in endless transformations is wordlessness Overturning creation by selfless adaption to conditions is reversal; In the aftermath of absorbing potential, in wordlessness seal it away. ed note: tweak 8th line

It is a natural wonder, not a matter of willpower. Bodhidharma said, "Don't know". The next best way is to not act. So even when you feel, don't act on feelings. When you don't act on feelings, even though you may not be activating enlightening awareness— at least you avoid creating karma, so you won't have to deal with the debt now or in the future. Often enough, just this much is all one can do and therefore constitutes true practice. In alchemical terms, this is called stilling the body; refining vitality. In terms of noticing, it is just a matter of watching over the mind at all times with a subtle consistency. True meditation is serenity and unperturbability in all situations— that's why formal meditation is called a temporary expedient. In alchemical terms, this is called stilling the mind; refining energy. When vitality and energy are refined one enters the spirit. People do not know that the nonpsychological is spiritual. The nonpsychological is just this impersonal awareness of real knowledge. When true lead, real knowledge is recognized by conscious awareness, consciousness enters reality. When conscious awareness and real knowledge join, the elixir is said to be restored elixir. When the elixir is restored, one has this real knowledge clarifying conscious awareness while conscious awareness maintains a subtle concentration of real knowledge. This is then the basis of the path of self-refinement. Without real knowledge there is no basis for the path, so without it, self-refinement cannot have its basis in reality. When the path is developed, one can then enter into situations for the purpose of self-refinement; carrying out tasks and deeds to completion in secret, the way is lofty and virtue inconceivable even though one has no mind of accomplishments and deeds. When the path develops there is only openness and sincerity, the true intent of the human body which has no location. One can then follow the way of sages in that one deals with things when they are small against great odds; discovering incipient potential arising and staying there, immovable. From start to finish the path is just observing mind and clarifying potential. Though in truth it has never had a beginning or end, one just enters the way by not following thoughts unawares. There is nothing more to reversal than just this not following the fundamental "pull" of the flow of mundanity— the random thoughts that come and go unawares. After a long time, the flow eventually dries to a trickle and one is then able to be really open to the flow of creation without being compelled to go along. At this point, one is in a position to discover, develop and carry out the various firing processes described in the taoist alchemical manuals. Even so, there has never been anything apart from observing mind and clarifying potential. ed note: add a coma

Yes, and I love Longchenpa's references to the pristine self-refreshing natural mind!!❤ Oh, and might as well put a plug in for Bankei Yotaku's (1622~1693) The Unborn, translated by Norman Waddell. ISBN 0-86547-153-3 It's just plain language for everyday ordinary people! I always try to remind people that the contents of the classics were left by enlightening beings. Therefore it is not in seeking intellectual understanding because the eye of authentic teaching is just inconceivability— THIS IS THE BASIS AND THE TRANSMISSION OF AUTHENTIC TEACHING. I myself do not understand a thing. I only recognize reality by seeing through phenomena without denying characteristics in order to adapt impersonally to everyday ordinary circumstances, which is the working definition of turning the light around. One does not avoid anything, only picking out the real from the false. One simply does not use what is seen; whereas ordinary people more or less speculate on circumstances. Having no calculations based on unconsciously projected outcomes, there are still consequences, so one matches creation's chaos with one's potential of innocent non-being awareness because that is all enlightening being has invested. That's why it's called selfless. There is not a shred of conventional morality implied. Reality isn't events, much less a single person; the real is just the pervading light of awareness without origination or location or object or cause. Going along you see illusion, live and breath illusion, create illusion, absorb illusion because that's what you are through and through in terms of going along. Going in reverse, you just see the unborn, live in the uncreated and absorb the pristine, nonoriginated living aware potential because that is what you are in terms of reversal. Before realization, you chop wood and carry water. After realization you chop wood and carry water. Dogen said "people become buddhas and buddhas become people". ed note: add everything below the first sentence

hi yumyum!!❤❤

Too bad your Buddha-nature isn't around, Sinbin, I'll bet he could touch me juust right…❤ haahahhahahaaa!!!❤❤

It's pretty decent karma to practice a lifestyle conducive to a whole hale and hardy individual. But we all have different jobs to accomplish in terms of destiny. Challenges are sometimes not amenable to a long healthy life. I am very fortunate. Others are not so fortunate. But still, many people do not do what they can and should to live out their potential, and thelerner's message is so true. I do very well~ but in spite of the fortunate yet circumstantial lifestyle I maintain, I know very well that I could work harder.❤

Yes, there are obvious parallels between the Secret of the Golden Flower teaching and You Are the Eyes of the World) by Longchenpa, in that they are both all at once teachings necessarily working with unborn conscious awareness directly in everyday ordinary situations. Why don't you start a thread on Longchenpa, Walker? That would be the appropriate place to bring it up! Introduce Longchenpa in the buddhist section with your insights and perhaps a few quotes to illustrate them. I have a few threads devoted to Longchenpa in the articles section as well.❤ ed note: add link to Longchenpa's book.

Since things come from the way, they are no different than the way, so it is not a matter of abandoning things to search for the way. Nothing is "given up". For starters, reversal can be expressed and developed simply by not taking it upon oneself to habitually intellectualize arbitrary opinions and feelings towards anything at all whether objects of self or other are internal or external phenomena. Another word for this is not-doing or nondoing. Laotzu used the term, "Like a dunce". Creation is the manifestation of the way. There is nothing else to work with. The only difference between enlightening activity and willingly going along in the matrix of karmic momentum, is turning the light around. There is no other mind and no other light. It is possible to arrive at the beginning and cross over into the unborn mind itself by reversing the light and shining it back onto its source where you are right now. This is the unexcelled method of adepts. Arriving at the solidification of the totality of oneself is entry into the inconceivable. This is sudden enlightenment. Though it is instantaneous realization, the process of self-refinement is carried out in a sustained subtle course of unbroken effort over a long period of time— like a hundred days, a thousand days, ten thousand days— it doesn't matter to those who have the will to enlightening being. The teaching is sublime, but it is people's own habitual selfish ignorance, physical, mental and spiritual laziness and avarice that prevents them from seeing reality as it is, even now in the reading of these words. Just as nothing is gained from sudden enlightenment, nothing is lost in turning the light around. Try it. All the taoist classics speak of return, tell of reversal to arrive at reality, but no one can accomplish this. It is such a pity. As for the Secret of the Golden Flower practiced by ignoramuses— the waterwheel and derivative exercises are discussed in countless other manuals. It is unconscionably perverse to insist that energetics is the import of this transmission. If only for the fact that a few European adventurers who arrived on the scene of a science deeper than science itself (and only a few thousand years late to boot), that there is a wasteful contention that not only overlooks the point of the teaching itself, but (during its European heyday), tried to make it out as a heavily-veiled mystical wonder too good for ordinary people. Oooooooh (Must. Genuflect. At. Jung's. Altar.)! In spite of the shortcomings of Wilhelm's source document and its poor translation, the real benefit of its debut in the West's lexicon was simply that it was discovered at all! An excellent version of an authentic source document has been available in English since 1991: ISBN 0-06-250193-3. It is just that body-based energy work is easy to grasp, while working with the light of consciousness is inconceivable, that people covet their tiny little specks of practice and imagine that a minor subtle-body trick will somehow, eventually transport them to inconceivable realms~ veritable signposts on the way. If you want to arrive at entry into the inconceivable, it is necessary to work with inconceivability from the very start. ed note: add "Like a dunce" in the second paragraph