asanjuan2008

I tend to agree with this. If it helps people and hurts no one, it's good. There is a lot of soul searching and angst floating around out there. In the USA and Europe, the usual mainstream religions are failing to provide the spiritual uplift that people need, and if they want to turn to alternative faiths, why not? On the other hand, I have nothing but disdain for the people who try to gyp others of their hard-earned money through hoaxes.

From the site: "How to explain phenomenon such as spirits, ghosts, and death in terms of a holistic metaphysical framework which aligns current quantum mechanical theories with philosophical tenets from Taoism, Buddhism and other spiritual foundations." Quantum Tao Thoughts? Ideas?

Very interesting. But how does this negate the suggestion that many-particle systems are still made of waves? Waves with aspects in a trillion dimensions actually sounds fascinating ;-) Can you elaborate on this?

It was the claims about death and spirits...but, you are right, the main point is that these were just suggestions. Definitely New Age feel to it, which isn't necessarily bad. At least it did not start spouting off about Love is the center of the Universe and such ;-) And from what i have read about Quantum Theory, the statements made about it seem to be very valid, and the tenets derived from those seem to be reasonable as well. It's the claims made in the paragraphs about haunted houses and such that were going towards the boundaries.

After death, you (or at least the info about you) still exists in the Tao ;-) http://www.blueboard.com/quantum/index.htm#death

The quantum stuff is legit; the question is whether it was over-reaching in the end.

+1 Everytime someone here says "socialism" as if it were some disease, I have to laugh, as many socialists states have higher living standards than the USA. I'll also point out that many "semi-communist" nations like China have proven remarkably resilient to economic disasters recently, including the 1997 currency crises in Asia which absolutely destroyed the living standards of capitalist countries around it like the Philippines and Thailand (and which needed Chinese actions to curtail the disaster), as well as the current crises. In the end, the middle ground is always better. Another +1

Judy Satori - I flinch in embarrassment whenever I hear about people like this. Charlatans. DNA activation - all the links I see on the web for this seems to be from people wanting to make a buck. Scamming is so easy nowadays in the age of the internet.

By chance I am reading Deng Ming Dao's 365 Tao meditations, and for the entry to be read on Nov 29 (northern hemisphere) he says this about Donkeys (and I summarize): In order to climb to the summit of the mountain, one has to sometimes use a donkey, but once one reaches the summit and views the vista, it does not matter what donkey was used, whether it be a Tao donkey, or Buddhist donkey, or Jewish donkey...

Lamarkism as a whole had been discredited awhile back. However, there is evidence to suggest that various forms of adaptive mutagenesis is possible in microorganisms, where the organisms may actively alter their genes in response to outside stimuli. If one can somehow change one's germline cells in response to various practices, then it would be theoretically possible. The question is how would one accomplish this so that directed macrochanges can be passed to offspring ;-)

Sorry, but I hit this quote and had to look at it that way "But all this talk of seals against demons, magical rituals, temples, commandments, has put me off. " Interesting well thought-out post. I do subscribe to some of the religious practices, but the main attraction for me has always been the ideological framework.

Thanks for your reply Pietro. I would agree with you here, but your example of "escapism" and "lack of salvation" is not valid. It doesn't matter what religion they subscribe to, so long as it helps them attain stability with themselves and the people around them. That does not mean a temporary stability, as you seem to imply in the example, but one that they practice and think of continuously. Maybe you should define "New Age", because although I don't necessarily subscribe to these thoughts, I do know some New Age systems are DERIVED from situations where life stress and the inability to cope with life cause the believer to depart from their current "authentic" faiths, which did not provide a strong enough framework for them. I would also contend that labeling a faith as "authentic" is misleading, because there may not be such a thing. As I mentioned, since faiths evolve continuously over time, the only "authentic" faith is one that is still currently used. The Islam and Christianity practiced today (in its many sects and cults) is different than ones practiced when they first started (although Islam less so). Is Taoism any different? Which is the authentic, the original or the derived, which is the result of continued evolution? You are wrong here because faith is not a science, where many things are based on objective verifiable and measurable phenomenon. A faith can mean different things to different people, it's up to each one of us to find out our path. What may mean salvation for one person, can mean stultifying drudgery for another. What may mean satisfaction for one, may mean confusion for another. You make an interesting point here. What this corresponds to is a a genetic bottleneck, where only a few individuals get through to a new environment, and the entire population is then derived from this initial bottleneck. I will point out though that in biology, evolutionary bottlenecks are quite common, and the existing population tend to diversify over time to become as vibrant or more so than the original population, and definitely is more adapted to the new lay of the land than the old one. Which is better then, the new or the old, or it is the same? Both are adapted to the circumstances around them. Both are optimized so they can do the most good. No, I assume the core values ARE in some form. The Tao te Ching is a start, but I wouldn't be here right now discussing things if I thought it was the end all. Evolutions by definition ARE adaptive at the current time, or they would not have happened ;-) In the same way, people would not accept and DEFINE a new direction in a religion if it were not adaptive and useful (for them).

It's a pretty good movie. I'm buying it on Blu-ray, but watched in in theaters as well. My wife and I watched it both in the theaters because of its somewhat realistic Chinese themes.

Hi all, I'n new to Taoism and am happy to be here. I'm a Java programmer and biofuel advocate in real life, but am enjoying exploring the frameworks of Taoism. I manage two sites on taoism: New Tao Blog The Simple Tao A. Roy

Come now, whether from a historical perspective or personal perspective, it was obviously meant as a slight on taoism as seen in the USA and other extra-Chinese settings. You might want to think about this when using money, then. Money may have subjective worth to each person, but boy does it give back objective verifiable objects (like cars, houses, and food).

You must have missed this part, then: QUOTE: "But to simply let any traveller who reaches a new land start his own version of a religion, and expect that to have equal value than the original on the one side, and the native in that land, on the other, is according to me a bit naive." He obviously means to compare Taoism in the USA versus the one in China.

1. Why this obsession with assigning some objective "value" to religions, or sects? I would think that the function of any religion is to help its members spiritually without detriment to others around them, and if any religion does so, then one cannot say it is less or more than any other. The fact that Taoism in the USA has produced a vibrant variant with imports from other philosophical tenets does not in any way devalue it versus the original tenets in China, so long as the basic works like the Tao Te Ching are still revered and so long as it uplifts its members. This obsession with true and untrue religions is simply a facet of the inherent tribalism in people...an us versus them outlook burned into our genes that really should have no place in Taoism. 2. You say there is no continuity with the original, and yet the fact is, the original works of Taoism speak for themselves, even given the various translations and interpretations. The "Christian Bible" is an amalgamation of many works and MANY translations (since obviously most everyone does not speak Hebrew or Latin), some present in some sects, some not in others, and yet all the groups that use the "bible" are called "Christian", because the CORE belief, that of the person called Christ, is one and the same. Some of the offshoots of Christianity (I will use this religions as an example because I was Catholic and am familiar with it more than, say Islam or Judaism, or Hinduism) in countries like the Philippines have adapted local philosophies to such an extent that one could hardly call them Christians if one looked at the original variation in the Middle East, and yet the basic core values (such as the Bible) remain and thus label the whole (the Philippines) as "catholic" still - notwithstanding local beliefs intertwined with biblical characters such as dwarves, spirits, local deities, etc. 3. You seem to make a big deal about HOW taoism first got to america, but I can tell you now it makes not one whit of difference how it got here, so long as the core values remained. Does going to the bakery by foot make me any different than if I went to the bakery by car? The same core information that makes me "me" is still there - the transport does not matter. As I said, religions and philosophies evolve over time, and evolving Taoism is not an exception.

I'm curious as to what this REAL taoism is. I've encountered a few strict adherents who deride those who stumble onto Taoism from popular media as "Taoist Lite" or "Poohists", and firmly believe only they know the way to the REAL taoism. It is obviously a fact that Taoism started in China, and of course its practice there continues to strongly influence Taoism worldwide, but that does not mean there are evolving branches of Taoism that do not also merit the term just because they vary in some of their practices. Everything evolves over time, even religions and philosophies. For example, the practices of the Islamic and Christian churches today are far different from those when it first started. What makes Taoism different? Evolution is usually good. It makes any structure adapt over time to changing conditions to become optimal in its environment. As in biology, so too in any philosophical and religious frameworks.