modestman

emptiness contains, substance bears uncertainty, reality is.

hello taobums. Edit: I now have the book and am going to use this thread for any questions I might have which will be posted as they arise Now I'm just wondering those of you who have been to a seminar or read the book what are your views on this practice. I have been practicing/studying Buddhism for a number of years mainly Theravada and Dzogchen. As I came back to this forum I've seen a lot of threads and interest in Kunlun and was wondering what are actually the benefits you guys/gals are cultivating? I know as from practicing Buddhism for a number of years I have become more laid back and been able incorporate in helping people (therapy). Although I believe that traditional meditation is the Way; I do not stick to a certain method out of ignorance, I value the words of the Buddha's saying "See for yourself." I am going to order the book out of curiousity but just wondering what some of you folks get out of this practice. I cannot gather much information about it on the internet but I take it is part of a physical meditation technique? If so I will test it out with some sitting meditation and see how beneficial it can be. Metta Modestman

Well I got the book and have started practicing One thing I am wondering about is the ball position. Do you have to keep your hands/feet in this position for the whole duration or is it just to activate the energy? Cheers, Modestman

Hello everyone I have been studying/practicing the Tao and Dhamma and would like to clear somethings up, if anyone else has some contribution or belief please post as the more discussion the better. First of all Dogma is not to be found in the true teachings of the Buddha or Lao Tzu. As common ground, I have found that people like to attach/cling to any form, feeling, concept/view, etc. Due to this nature people engage in arguing, conflict, and suffering. While many people cling to buddhism views and perspectives they cling to the concepts not the true teachings. This is important because the Buddha did not teach Buddhism he taught the middle way - the path that leads to nibbana (the end of suffering). This path is one of being aware of the Dhamma - the natural qualities of the way things are. These qualities are that all conditioned phenomena is always changing, bound up with suffering, and not having any permanent substance (self). By clinging and wanting conditioned phenomena we create suffering. The way out of this suffering is through the path of morality, concentration, and wisdom. Which generates mindfulness/awareness that leads to the simplicity of observation and seeing things as they really are oppose to conditioned views and opinions. Lao Tzu essentially taught the same essence of the middle taught by the Buddha - non-attachment, removal of excessive desires, and refuge in simplicity and awareness. Recognizing the Tao is seeing things beyond conceptual knowledge, recognizing their true nature. Therefore the Tao and the Dhamma are essentially the same. Recognizing or being one with the Tao/Dhamma is to recognize the way things are without attachment embracing (not neglecting) them as they come and go as objects. To be able to clearly recognize them without judgement is to be aware and this awareness is what I perceive to be the heart of Buddhism and the Tao. Tao - The way things are; embracing opposites and change Dhamma - The way things are; embracing opposities and change Buddha - One who became enlightened to the Dhamma Lao Tzu - One who became enlightened to the Tao This again is the way I understood both teachings. I have mainly studied Buddhism as when I was a beginner it provided a better basis/path as a new comer to the Tao can often be confused by some of the teachings. However as I continued studying, meditating, and reflecting on these teachings it became more apparent they both embrace the middle way of observation rather than attachment to extremist views. I hope this will clear some things up for some people who have some doubt on Buddha vs. Lao Tzu. I know Lao Tzu predates the Buddha in historical timeline, I do not value one teacher over another but rather see the value/resemblance in their teachings. Metta Modestman

The difference between the view of eternal Tao and the Buddhist perspective of impermanence is something people don't usually want to look at. But this is very similar if one looks closely. I believe Buddhism operates more as a method/path of getting to the refined as Philosophical Tao talks more about the characteristics of the refined. When Buddhists say ever-changing they are referring to conditioned phenomena (form, feeling, perception, volitional formations, consciousness). Therefore even when you "hear" a sound, this recognition is impermanent because this sound-consciousness (being aware of sound) depends on the object (initial sound). This is the Buddhist view it can get rather complicated conceptually. What they do consider eternal is awareness. They state that this 'original mind' is always present but when one is not aware of their moods or thoughts; the thoughts or mood tend to take over and one loses mindfulness. Therefore this initial awareness is ever present but due to lack of mindfulness we become entangled in greed, aversion, and delusion. So being one with the Tao is essentially being one who is aware. What are they aware of? They are aware of the way things are through observation rather than conceptual knowledge of relating. In summary my understanding is that Philosophical Tao talks more about the goal of being in this eternal state of awareness; while Buddhism is more of an approach guideline to get to this end goal. The Buddha used many approaches to help guide different students among the path but we realize this eternal state is ever present but our over striving and unwholesome views/actions have misled us. I like the line in the Tao Te Ching 53 - The great Tao is broad and plain But people like the side paths I like to relate this to our 'original state' as talked about in Buddhism. We are always aware but we run off with but when we deviate from this state with moods, thoughts, and desires we get sidetracked and lost. Whitetiger: I do not follow any religious Taoism or anything. I am only fond of the Tao Te Ching. Buddhism however I studied Theravada Buddhism.

Hello I've been reading the book 'mindfulness in plain english' - it is a real good book and very straight forward. I have interest in Vipassana and have looked into the Goenka retreat since it is one of the only vipassana retreats I could find information on. The thing is, I am very skeptical about this method. I feel that many people have gone to these retreats and came back with a sense of worship of Goenka. To me this is the exact opposite of what Vipassana is. I feel the mere image of this retreat is 'weird'. I am NOT saying it isn't beneficial, because the main components of this retreat are very rewarding (developing patience, and mental strength). Now I find many people reporting hallucinogenic occurances, which I do not understand. Yes, Vipassana is a very powerful method of meditation but I believe the monks and traditional buddhists have a very different view on this than that of Goenka. Basically what I'm getting at is I want to learn more about vipassana as I think it can be a very helpful meditation tool, but just the idea of Goenka attaching his name to the method leads me to wonder a little bit. Basically people are glorifiying this retreat experience or reporting horror stories. I'm wondering have any of you tao-ists have any views on this topic. Also would you recommend I learn Vipassana from a Buddhist or Zen temple (there are a couple near me). Cheers

excellent! thanks for the replys I was just wondering if there were alternative approaches to Vipassana that still contain its pure form. I feel I should be able to learn this method through an alternative source (book,video,course) other than Goenka's method. Cheers

interesting I never thought of that. Well I'm not performing any third-eye or healing meditations, I'm just basically focusing on my breath and obtaining a clear mind. What are some methods to remove qi from neck? If this helps I can kind of compare how my neck feels. When I do situps a certain way my neck also gets like this it feels really tense as If little to no air is getting up through it and it is stiff but i find if i do an alternate way of doing a sit up it no longer bothers me. I can also feel my neck getting stiffer in the meditation I bring my attention to it and just watch. It feels as if it is some sort of gland behind my ears which get tense and stiffen. If anyone can recommend a meditation or exercise that would help it would be greatly appreciated. P.S. I do go to a chiropracter once a month so I will mention it to him next time I go. Cheers

Thanks for the reply's... Yes, that was what I was concerned about all these people worshiping Goenka! I was wondering if his courses are meant for that. I think I will be fine in that aspect as I tend to just pickup on the message that the people are delivering whether it be Buddhism or Taoism I just take the concept and have respect for the teacher but do not worship him as a God. As for the stiff neck, it could be a 'sensation' or whatever but I highly doubt it. My mind is really quiet to begin with and I do avoid the discomfort but only to find it getting worse as I continue. I guess I will go to the chiropracter and see if he can fix it up. Cheers

Hi everyone, I'm fairly new to Tao, I love the philosophy part of it and the Tao Te Ching really helps me experience a state of peace. I feel my next goal is to begin meditation so that I can become more aware in everyday life. I am wondering if anyone can help me along finding a Tao approach to meditation. I have been self-meditating for months now with no real guide so to speak. I just concentrate on my breathing and the flow of energy. Do any of you fellow taobums have any recommendations or approaches that should help me get on my way or guide me along in my meditations? I am doing basic meditations as relaxing the body but I hear there is more you can do with energy and other aspects of body-mind. I'm thinking about attending a Vispassana retreat and wondering if this would be beneficial or inflict with an original Tao approach of meditation. Cheers

Thanks a lot for the reply I've actually been second guessing myself on the retreat as currenlty my meditations can not last more than 10 minutes as I get an stiffness in my neck Anyone know how to help with this, it is really bothersome. Once I resolve this problem i'm probably going to sign up. I've heard it being almost hypnotic (which I don't really like) but I think the 10 days in silence by itself will have a significant reward.

I totally agree that having an instructor is much better than reading from a book. But I cannot seem to find any Dao centers around my area. I live in Niagara Falls, and we have a Buddhist temple which I might head down to talk to someone. But I find Buddhism meditation is a lot different than Tao meditation. It seems as if the Buddhists focus on the suffering and pain until it no longer bothers them, whereas I take it to believe that Tao meditation is all 'natural' so to speak and the teachings looked into the light of things and that of all being natural. I know they both require concentrate and a peaceful mind, but it seems that Buddhism takes it serious by dwelling on the pain and suffering rather than finding the light. I might be wrong but from my gatherings of information this is the impression I got. Cheers

thanks for your contribution to be a little more specific im focused on not necessarily the martial arts aspect of it. I'm more focused on inner meditation. Another thing hopefully someone could clarify for me; I hear all the time about reverse-breathing vs diaphram breathing. Now I know if I do reverse breathing I can picture the flow better rising up my spine on the inhale and going down my body on the exhale, but I feel that if I do diaphram breathing I could possibly take in more air. Anyone know which method is the proper method, or is it only really a matter of preference? Cheers

Hello fellow Taoists, I discovered taoism a few months ago and love the philosophy, naturalism, and great wisdom of the Tao Te Ching. I'm here looking to discover a little more about Taoism, including books, rituals or meditations that are involved in pursuing daily life of a modern taoist. Some other things about me, I am hopefully going to be studying philosophy and spiritual/religious studies next year in university. Cheers