Buddy

Many years ago I read "Stalking the Wild Pendulum" by Itzhak Bentov. Later his wife became one of my students. Here's Dr. Bentov on Kundalini: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5218727140090965478

Adam, I teach baguazhang.

While Pietro and I disagreed, we are in concurrence with BKF's neigong, although I don't think a belief in qi is necessary to practice it. I have had odd things happen but I don't think they were out of the realm of a physical nature. I also think Kumar's using the number 16 is somewhat arbitrary. I am not discounting qi, just being agnostic. Someone had a link here (starjumper?) to some neigong site that said their neigong is used for martial arts, that no martial training was necessary...sorry that's silly. Like this:

"Buddy, hi. Could you give an example of how you learn to feel and manipulate the inner body? That would be very useful, since I am puzzled about what you mean when you say that." I could (maybe) and I might but you seem to just dismiss my ideas on the outset...so what's the point. Come see me and I could show you quite readily. "What aspect of the inner body are you feeling? What aspect are you manipulating?" See, heres' the thing. I'm a martial art guy. I KNOW what I feel and I manipulate. Clearly you don't. "How do you know you are succeeding?" And it's this sort of question that makes me feel you're just trolling. Come see me I'll show you. Come see me and I will SHOW you. I don't know that you could understand it if you can't duplicate it in your body. And that's the real issue for me. I don't think you have the capacity to understand it if you can't do it. I know I didn't. If I told you I can open and close the vertebrae of my spine...or my skull...or lengthen at will the soft tissue of my body...or open and close my internal cavities...or my individual joints...or....or why would believe me? These are real skills that I can readily demonstrate. Not some bullshit idea of defending ones self by some mysterious "neigong" power. This...is neigong.

I have no idea what "starjumper" is bragging about. Let's start with the literal definition of neigong. It simply means internal work. It was the term used before the term qigong became popular. The system of neigong I teach (from BK Frantzis) is about learning how to feel and then manipulate the inner body.

So, how do we address you? Certainly not Sifu?

Probably close to you: http://www.eegbiofeedback.cz/english/engli...p?menu=homeleas

"Addressing Buddy's anger towards my statement," No, anger. I only said "TOO static? It's a static exercise." Not the other stuff. That was someone else. BTW, my thinking is closer to thaddeus. All stancework can be used for personal development. How low you go in stance is a physical decision.

I guess I'm the babe at 50. Michael, I always tell my single friends, marry your second wife first. Too late for me, but I got it right the second time.

"Beautiful deduction and flowing logic! " Well, given that he was wrong is some cases, the flowing logic is lost on me. But everyone is going to believe what they want regardless of the truth.

I appreciate the compliment Cam, but I'm not high level by any means. But I am a pretty good teacher.

"It seems you are skeptical of certain Masters so called powers." You might say that. "Based on your development in IMA - which I gleaned from your previous posts - you Do believe in cultivation of physical arts which in turn implies culitivation of Qi as well." I am open minded about qi. I have no hard evidence it exists, but I'm willing to concede it might "So it appears that you believe in physical cultivation and Qi cultivation, but not in spiritual cultivation." No, I don't believe in magic powers and don't think that sort of thing has anything to do with spirituality. "Would you agree?" See above. "It seems to be a bit of a disconnect to accept the premises of internal martial arts on the layers of physical "and Qi but not to accept the premise of cultivation of the spiritual layer or Shen." My skill is physical. Whether or not qi has anything to do with it is still up in the air for me. "In my view (which is not a unique one) the three layers are connected, Jing Qi Shen. Just as Yin/Yang are not two but one so are Jing Qi Shen not three and separate but one and connected on a continuum." If we assume qi exists, and it can be transmuted into what you are calling shen, then so-called magical powers don't play into it. "Just seems like a contradiction to me. The Taoist world view - as I know it admittedly from outside the culture - is whole. Practicing IMA and Taoist spirituality are inseparable." Nonsense. One need never even speak of philosophical matters to become skilled. "So it seems clear that there is a necessity for physical cultivation to develop physical abilities (martial arts or other...) By logical progression it would seem obvious there is a need for Qi cultivation to develop related abiliities and a necessity for Spiritual cultivation to develop there as well. It seems a cop out to say that spirituality is just so and there is no necessity for cultivation." But I never said that. "Practice of IMA should lead to development of all three layers. If only physical and Qi power are developed then it is incomplete." Martial arts are about self defense and CAN be used to cultivate ones self. Or not. "Now what you said about not believing in powers , and that powers don't have anything to do with spirituality is not something I disagree with. On the other hand powers (which according to the above statement may or may not exist) don't necessarily indicate a Lack of spirituality either." Nor did I give indication that it did. "Anyway, why would you want anyone to offer you a free slot to study anything? Your cup seems quite full as it is." Well, think of what a powerful testimonial it would be. But it's not going to happen, they only want the already convinced.

cat, The bottom line is this sort of levitation is impossible. One simply cannot defy gravity.

"Buddy - I appreciate yr scepticism. But, what do you see as spiritualism vis-a-vis cultivation of our inner selves/attributes...? Do you see spiritualism as something altogether different than seeking within?" I'm not a spiritual teacher so there's little I can contribute. My feelings are more along the Dzogchen or Advaita lines. I think there is nothing to be cultivated, that True Reality already exits and it is (not simply) a matter of realizing it. Don't look to me for methods, though. If you want to learn internal power for the purpose of developing yourself, I can teach you that. But enlightenment? Not me, Moe.

Pardon my skepticism "cat". You won't because this magic stuff all nonsense.

"Buddy is a bad ass and if I am ever in the Boston area am looking him up for a lesson!" I'm not a bad ass. I'm a recovering martial arts bum. "Though Buddy, don't you think in this whole vast Universe with it's trillions of stars and billions of galaxies there must exist beings who have learned to overcome gravity?(using super mind powers or something?!)" I'm fine with potentials and possibilities, but I'm also a pragmatist. I'm older than some of you so maybe my BS detector is set higher. I just don't want any of you to get swept up because you "want to believe." I seriously doubt that a person's physical body can violate the laws of physics. That's all. "Just seems that those sorts of abilities must exist somewhere. Probably if there any humans on Earth who can fly(like Neo in the Matrix) they aren't teaching publically but all these stories of Immortals ascending in broad daylight and stuff..you think all of that is complete mythology?" Yes. I'd be happy to be proved wrong but I'm not going to be wearing a tin foil hat until I am. BTW Leo, I'm sorry if I was rude. But we can't allow ourselves the luxury of delusion. "What makes you think I have no knowledge of levitation? " Do you?

So what is this alleged Taoist magic and what can it supposedly do?

"Please excuse me, but birds and airplanes do defy gravity, using other laws of physics besides gravity. A bird uses no device or mechanism other than their body." No they don't. They use aerodynamics. If they stop flapping their wings they fall. I defy gravity everytime I stand up or jump into the air; I just can't defy gravity for very long." No, you never defy it. Gravity doesn't force you to remain on the planet. It makes you (as long as you are in its influence) fall back down. EVERY time. "Gravity is defied everytime a space shuttle enters orbit." Please. No it isn't. "Whether or not a device is being used is really not germaine. The laws of the universe are being manipulated every day based on our understanding of them." NO, they are not. EVER. "That's not my point, nor my angle. My question for you is this: Are you so sure that you have a complete understanding of gravity and whether or not it can be defied, or are you just voicing your opinion?" It doesn't matter here. I clearly have a better understanding than you. You have presented a false argument. Nothing what you have said is true. If you want to believe in this horse shit then it's on you. These magical powers, while maybe possible, have never been shown to hold up to real scrutiny, and are NOT germane to spiritual progress. Come see me, I'll show you real provable internal power. You just won't like the outcome.

"Do you study Southern Kung Fu? If so, willing to give a better example? If not, can you give a better examples then I gave for how the bones are used to transfer force?" Many years ago, I studied Hung Ga Fu Hok with the late great Lee Yat Ming. But my primary interest for the last 25 years or so has been the so called internal martial arts. I studied for over ten years with Bruce Kumar Frantzis and for the last seven or so with Luo Dexiu of the Yizong system. Bones do what the muscles tell them to do. The whole structure of the body, meaning in this case, the skeletal system, transfers force via pengjin. But nothing exists in isolation. I can receive your force in a static position just using my structure. But I need other things for fajin. It's easier to feel it than write about it.

I'm still waiting for these so called masters to come to Boston and offer me a free slot. I don't believe in these powers and still don't think they have anything to do with spirituality.

"In Southern systems they often use Whiping power. Most general or common example of this is the whipping power of the waste. Fi Ching (don't know how to properly spell it) the wiping power from a mabu stance and extending your your fist as your turn into a bow and arrow stance is whipping power of the waist. (i didn't study or practice southern Kung Fu so please bare with me) the fact that you used the force of your waist whipping is where the energy is happening." Why would you attempt to explain something you admit you don't know? Horse stance is just horse stance. Any stance can be used for "standing like a post."

Magic? LOL!

Please. There is a vast gulf between using "devices" for moving objects and magic tricks. I notice Hutchison doesn't use live subjects. He is NOT defying gravity any more than birds nor airplanes do.

But defying the law of gravity is not one of them.