RongzomFan

Which one of the 12 links of D.O. is karma?

First you recognize the nature of the mind through transmission. But realizing emptiness is a much higher accomplishment, that requires something like karmamudra.

Tummo is pure yoga thing involving holding the breath, mulabandha etc. And you need transmission.

You both are losing me.

So what branches are not realist?

Why not? You were correct, thats what Madhyamaka is. Just a bunch of conceptual reasonings.

The end of the logical process is freedom from the views of existence and nonexistence.

I have a feeling its going to be pages of Jeff talking about "feeling with the heart", yet never describing what that means.

Jeff please don't start with your heart stuff again. Whenever you are asked to explain it, you just say "Feeling with the heart is not a technique that can be taught".

Realist is realist. From my point of view even new atheism and Islam are in the same boat. It definitely doesn't match the "buddhist essence". I dug as deep as anyone can reasonably do, including reading modern scholarly history books on magick: Grimoires: A History of Magic Books By Owen Davies Oxford University Press If I ever get transmission for the most wrathful deity in Vajrayana, I would stomp on Yahweh, Allah, Krishna, the Goetia and the enochian angels. In that sense, maybe I would get back into Western magick.

Yeah but that doesn't refer to the actual heart. Its like saying barbell squats are the "heart" of weight training. An alternative classification puts yangti as the highest literature, and yangti doesn't translate to heart at all. http://www.thlib.org/collections/texts/jiats/#!jiats=/01/germano/b8/

Thank you Pero. TI made me fall out of my chair with his statement that HHDL dropped Tsongkhapa. Yes, the "Madhyamaka" of Tsongkhapa / Dalai Lama is hilariously fucked up. But thats a different issue.

You think the HH Dalai Lama dropped Tsongkhapa's teachings. TI, why are you always so hilariously wrong? This book of the Dalai Lama is from 2010. Its all about Tsongkhapa's Madhyamaka. http://books.google.com/books?id=Ep0gyJV-R9AC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Dalai+lama+The+Middle+Way&hl=en&sa=X&ei=dxjyUJi9BenC0QH1roHIDg&ved=0CDAQuwUwAA

You need to stop presenting your personal views as Dzogchen, when you don't haven't even heard of Menngagde until today.

I find this extremely entertaining...Do you have cognitive dissonance or are you bent on self-destruction? Lmfao at you TI. Dig your hole even deeper and keep pretending that your hooves aren't in your mouth.

Thats what Shugden people claim. Obviously HH Dalai Lama disagrees since he follows Tsongkhapa more than anyone. Tsongkhapa didn't teach Shugden, since Shugden comes a couple of centuries after.

Yes and? I don't get your point.

For the purposes of this thread I will be a follower of Madhyamaka. But my view really is gzhi of Dzogchen Menngagde, not Madhyamaka. To the extent they are compatible is debatable.

Yes methods matter. Thats why Theravadins don't display light body, since they cannot eliminate all delusions regarding their nature.

See post 1 Madhyamikas do not put forth a philosophical position. We cannot be wrong. Nagarjuna said "If I had any position, I thereby would be at fault. Since I have no position, I am not at fault at all."

Your original nature is rainbow body. Is that what you mean?

I'm not going to even point out the irony in this statement.

Jhana states have nothing to do with Vajrayana, let alone Dzogchen. We have stuff like trul khor, tummo and karmamudra instead.

New Agers, Theravadins etc. would be attaining rainbow body if you were correct. Enough said.

What does Malcolm to do with anything? Nice try shifting the topic from yourself.