RongzomFan

You are a clueless ass. Btw, who is talking about reincarnation? We were talking about karma. Again read what you are quoting very slowly.

Wow, did you read the first part of the fucking paragraph. THe part you didn't highlight. What a dumbass. "A concept of karma (along with samsara and moksha) may originate in the shramana tradition of which Buddhism and Jainism are continuations. This tradition influenced the Brahmanic religion in the early Vedantic (Upanishadic) movement of the 1st millennium BC." Dude, like I said, you aren't knowledgeable about jack shit, especially buddhism like you purport to be.

Dude seriously, you must be dyslexic. You are utterly clueless.

Where does it say that? Dude you are clueless.

How is wikipedia not supporting my arguments? "The idea that the moral quality of one's actions influences one's rebirth is absent from India until the period of the shramana religions, and the Brahmins appear to have adopted this idea from other religious groups." Dude like I said before, you are not knowledgeable about anything, especially buddhism. "A concept of karma (along with samsara and moksha) may originate in the shramana tradition of which Buddhism and Jainism are continuations. This tradition influenced the Brahmanic religion in the early Vedantic (Upanishadic) movement of the 1st millennium BC. This worldview was adopted from this religious culture by Brahmin orthodoxy, and Brahmins wrote the earliest recorded scriptures containing these ideas in the early Upanishads."

By the way wikipedia is absolute garbage. But as long as wikipedia is supporting my arguments, which so far it is, its OK with me

I ask this again

So you are proving my point? Ok thank you.

Dude are you seriously dyslexic or something? How can you be a sramana now?

no it doesn't. Shramana was a movement that predated hinduism, buddhism and jainism. By your logic, you could become shramana in 2011 LOL

you keep saying that karma is a vedic concept, but its not. Not even in the slightest.

First....what upanishads before the Buddha? There was a thread about 2 years ago where we confirmed that the academic consensus was that all the Upanishads are post Buddha. Secondly.....Buddha learned from Shramana masters, not Hindu. Thirdly.....how is karma a vedic invention?

Can I drive your car? The tibetans "own" this information just like you own your car. Who are you to bully them? If you come up with an invention to make a flashing condom, shame on you if you go to a patent office.

seriously borrow the book from the library. You aren't going to learn anything on the internet.

Forrest Hindu? Wtf? I'm not a scholar, but with just anecdotal wikipedia research, I still think I am right. I will see if I can get some actual academic info from somewhere.

Buddhism came up with karma as we know it. In fact isn't that one of Buddha's big innovations? He went from this sramanic idea of "karma", which was not really karma, to real karma.

Ha I don't think so.

There was a jainist concept of karma that may or may not have predated buddhism. But it is really nothing like the type of karma buddhism and hinudism shares together, which is the type most people mean by the term karma. And I don't know if jains used the word karma way back then, or if thats a more recent introduction. I'm pretty sure that Buddhism came up with the type of karma, that we all mean when we talk about karma, including the hindu version, which is similar.

No I am not joking. Are you completely clueless? Yes.

I thought Buddha came up with karma??

Drew Hempel has been exiled? Nice enough guy but he would pollute threads with a lot of his weird personal views.

Oh yes maybe some of these protectors. I don't know about them. But all the main ones are as Indian as Gandhi

Kate, If you want to use any of my quotes, please go ahead.

Well I can't think of any that are Tibetan. I am just running through a list in my head. I am pretty sure all of them are Indian.

Well I thought it was just common knowledge that Vajrayana was practiced in India for hundreds of years before being transmitted to Tibet.