RongzomFan

Its funny how former alliances have turned on each other LOL EPIC FAIL

OOps, Samkhya is post-buddhism The only element of "Hinduism" that predates buddhism is vedic fire ritual. Thats it. Not even the upanishads.

I know I said I was done with this thread, but this was to fun. See my bold emphasis above. EPIC FAIL

Don't worry about it, Vaj is an arrogant POS who thinks he used to be Brahma LOL He is arrogant to everyone, if you look at his old posts.

From Theravada to Vajrayana, the emphasis is to view reality correctly. Never lose sight of that. The fourth jhana is most important. It allows you to access the divya caksus. This is my understanding of the divya caksus. Shakyamuni used this to trace his previous lives and other peoples previous and future lives. Thus he gained an understanding of karma, rebirth but most importantly DEPENDENT ORIGINATION. This is how he became a Buddha. He also used this to visit the gods I think, like Brahma. Sort of like an astral projection I think. In fact it is impossible for anyone to gain personal experience with higher metaphysics without the divya caksus. It is possible to gain arhatship without it, but you have to take the Buddha's word on higher metaphysics if you do not have it. If you want the personal experience with higher buddhist metaphysics you must have it.

Thanks CowTao for that. Since Styro is primarily is arguing about authenticity based on Indian traditions, you cannot obtain Buddhahood via Zen in one lifetime. You cannot travel 10 bhumis in one lifetime in Sutra. Impossible. Later Japanese Zen masters said you can acheive Buddhahood in one lifetime, but this is not authentic to the Mahayana sutras of India. Females cannot obtain Buddhahood at all, unless they are reborn as male first. So much for Styro sticking to the authentic teachings of India. The only way to obtain Buddhahood in one lifetime in the sutras, is that you are already a ninth stage bodhisattva. And then even according to sutra, you need tantric-style empowerment to remove the knowledge obscuration to omniscient Buddhahood. And with that, I am done with this fucking thread. mikaelz, you can ride my ass all you want.

Don't make me quote you.

What the fuck? This is not MY discovery or something dude. I wish LOL

You don't have any credibility, since you think certain forum people here are more knowledgeable than the Dalai Lama, who is a knowledgeable by all accounts. Stick to getting banned, like you normally do.

You are an idiot. The Indian COMMENTARIES of this tantra contain Dzogchen. These commentaries were written in Sanskrit in India. WOW.

I am not making up things as I go along. I was counting on you on making this mistake. Thats why I boldly said "Name ONE"

Is there a time delay on the forum or something? Why don't you address this? This is Dzogchen in India.

How about the Sankrit commentaries of Guhyasamaja, all written in India ANOTHER EPIC FAIL

Styro, I would like for you to address your epic failures on the last page. The Fifth Dalai Lama is mentioned in about every other Dzogchen book, if you want a source for that.

we've actually come full circle, because in Dzogchen the mind is considered an obscuration to omniscience.

Again thanks for riding my ass. But to answer your quesion, these people don't even claim to be Buddhas, and noone considers them buddhas, and there is no reason to consider tham buddhas.

These people are no omniscient Buddhas, merely Zen masters by their own admission. EPIC FAIL I already did. Are you ignorant or something? The earliest Dalai Lamas, like the Fifth, were the greatest Dzogchen practitioners in history. Everyone here knows this besides you and can confirm I am telling the truth. EPIC FAIL

I 100% agree with this. I never said otherwise. Like I said on page 3, the distinctive features of Dzogchen include the tantric anatomy. So if you substract that, yeah you are pretty close to Zen. The teachings of Mahayana, sutra and tantra, are similar on emptiness.

This is my post from page 3. This is what makes Dzogchen and Zen different. Am I putting down or insulting Zen in this post?

All I am trying to say is that Dzogchen is not the same as Zen. Not even close. Jesus. Read this thread and stop riding my ass.

Yeah since tantric anatomy is the distinctive feature of Dzogchen and tantra in general I mention this way back on page 3. And I don't knock sutra paths. Vajrayana does.

michaelz So Zen and Dzogchen are not the same, because Zen lacks tantric anatomy which leads to rainbow body. I said that pages ago.

mikaelz, And I describe rigpa in the very first post in pretty simple language, in which other people like, TheSongsofDistantEarth, admitted it was simple language. Read his comments on the first page.

What is the last Zen practitioner to achieve rainbow body, if Zen and Dzogchen are the same?