RongzomFan

What do you mean by this?

Candrakirti subscribes to the 2 truths. First, Candrakirti's Madhyamakavatara VI.23 defines ultimate and relative truth The object of perfect seeing is true reality, And false seeing is seeming reality. (True reality is Karl Brunnholzl's translation for ultimate truth in Center of the Sunlit Sky Seeming reality is Karl B.'s translation for relative truth.) And then in the next verse Candrakirti further defines 2 types of relative truth.

"Hence we can state without error that all phenomena are completley equivalent with illusions, as it is proved eloquently by Rongzom Chökyi Pandita. This may be frigtening to those who cling to notions of relative and ultimate truth." http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=7867&p=96180&hilit=Rongzom#p96180

Why would I be expected to understand what you two are talking about?

If you are going to quote Wikipedia, what about the sentence before: "Dzogchen is considered a tantric system...."

So you are saying another user, yabyum24, posted and highlighted a quote for no specific reason? And that makes "great sense"?

Not in Indian Madhyamaka. They are a core element.

I meant the sentence in Wikipedia is a useless sentence.

Are you and Yabyum24 the same person? Why are YOU telling me why he posted that quote?

That's just a useless sentence all around. Its just a way of classifying Dzogchen per Namkhai Norbu.

Again, I don't understand the purpose of this ChNN quote.

I myself wrote that verbatim in Wikipedia years ago. My knowledge has increased since then. You are quoting myself to myself.

What do you mean by rhetorical devices? There is an actual difference in method. Karmamudra vs meditation.

I have no idea what Yascra and Yabyum24 meant by their gradualist spontaneous stuff. So I can't address that.

For those wondering why tummo is practiced..... Dzogchen is a tantric system with winds, drops, channels etc. Why tummo wouldn't be practiced?

I'm putting you on ignore too

I'm putting you on ignore. Not specifically for those comments. But your previous comments indicate you don't even know what you are talking about most of the time.

yes the problem is with the 2 truths. The view of emptiness is pretty much the same.

Because Loppon Namdrol knows what hes talking about. His teacher, Kunzang Dechen Lingpa, did attain rainbow body.

Where does Dudjom Lingpa say samatha will stop the winds? Dudjom Lingpa himself was the biggest tummo practitioner around.

"Sutra for example, has no methods to reduce the movement of vāyu to such an extent that such "subtle minds" are accessed. In sutra methods, the movements of mind are ***ALWAYS COARSE***--" http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=3943&p=36798#p36798

I would respond, but I have no idea what you are talking about.

Yes

Milarepa said even a little bit of tummo was better than Gampopa's long meditation. http://books.google.com/books?id=OixlLsoIBXEC&pg=PA36&dq=milarepa+short+ah+gampopa&hl=en&sa=X&ei=58r7UtvPLoflsASP0oDgAg&ved=0CDIQuwUwAQ#v=onepage&q=milarepa short ah gampopa&f=false "Sutra for example, has no methods to reduce the movement of vāyu to such an extent that such "subtle minds" are accessed. In sutra methods, the movements of mind are always coarse --" http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=3943&p=36798#p36798

No