RongzomFan

Malcolm would disagree with you.

I don't know why you are arguing with me. Take it up with Rongzom.

False. Dudjom Rinpoche and Dilgo Khyetse subscribed to Other Emptiness at the sutra level. This is pretty well known.

And then the Dzogchen tantras themselves throw the 2 truths in the trash can: http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=14929&p=206339&hilit=samv%E1%B9%9Bitti#p206339

Candrakirti still has 2 truths, no matter how you try to get around it.

I understand what a relative truth is per Candrakirti. Rongzom would dispute even almighty Candrakirti. http://vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1195&hilit=Rongzom&start=10#p13857 You have to throw Madhyamaka in the trash can. Don't be attached.

I found this pertaining to Madhyamaka: "A true relative truth is somethat that is efficient and producing a result, for example, a wheat seed that produces a wheat sprout. " http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=6423&hilit=salt&start=60#p77715 Rongzom has a lot of objections to this from the tantric POV, and thus asserts tantra as superior to Madhyamaka.

And according to standard Nyingma classification, Atiyoga is one of the "three inner tantras" along with Mahayoga and Anuyoga. https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=inner+3+tantras+mahayoga+anuyoga#hl=en&q=inner+3+tantras+mahayoga+anuyoga+atiyoga&tbm=bks https://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=inner+tantras+mahayoga+anuyoga+atiyoga&safe=off&tbm=bks

According to standard Nyingma classification, Atiyoga is one of the "3 inner tantras" along with Mahayoga and Anuyoga. https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=inner+3+tantras+mahayoga+anuyoga#hl=en&q=inner+3+tantras+mahayoga+anuyoga+atiyoga&tbm=bks https://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=inner+tantras+mahayoga+anuyoga+atiyoga&safe=off&tbm=bks

Sarma - HYT Nyingma - Mahayoga and Anuyoga Deities are different

bump

Its all divine anyway. Tertons reveal more Mahayoga and Anuyoga than even Dzogchen.

They are complementary.

He should have said it was a nyingma tantra, not dzogchen

I didnt say it was dzogchen. I said it was completion stage. I think you are mixing what im saying with Simple Jack

Completion stage is karmamudra. See guide to the words of my perfect teacher.

Isn't it?

Even if you have a teacher, the primary method of Zen is reading text.

Yes I said that. Just because you recognize unfabricated presence doesn't make it like Dzogchen. Even Mahamudra is not like Dzogchen at all.

Yes it is.

Rainbow body is Buddhahood and our natural state. Its pityable that you don't consider Buddhahood as enlightenment. Enlightenment in Zen is still Buddhahood.

Actually I am pretty sure they are talking about Mahayoga and Anuyoga

bump

Your quoting yourself?