Sahaj Nath

you should have hit me up about this in a PM. i know i was really busy there for a while, but i would have gotten back to you quickly on something like this. need more info: how long were you practicing the form, and how long ago did you stop? did you actually receive transmission from a kunlun facilitator, or were you just practicing from the book? and what's this "fire path" that you're going to be training in now? and lastly, how's your nerves? any panic feelings or other uncontrollable emotions that seem to have come around at the same time as you started the practice? you didn't articulate feeling sick or feeling in any way bad when this happens, is that accurate? just a 'heart opening' type of feeling? at the moment i wouldn't worry too much about it. clearly you've unleashed something with the practice, but you're not forcing anything or trying to control it. so for the time being, at least until you share some more info, i wouldn't worry too much about it. um, maybe. certainly wouldn't be my first assumption. or second.

hey, i just read back through the first 10 pages or so... the current i draw & the connection i feel when i even think of Gurumayi is undeniable, and i've never even met her in-person. i was a little taken aback by the couple of people who said her blessing did nothing for them. no affinity, i guess? i've never really talked about my personal practice experiences here, and i'm not gonna start now, but after reading this post i think that you're the guy i should probably be talking to. i didn't know much and didn't care to know much about tantra or dzogchen, much less their fusion, until i started getting downloaded. both she and mark griffin are of the same line, but mark is more apt to whack you on the head with some of it, and the rest you have to reach for. with Gurumayi there was no whack on the head. she was more like cool water in a harsh terrain. some feel the thirst and immediately know to crouch down for a drink, whereas others remain on the rocks, waiting for the water to pour over them.

i'm sure Drew can elaborate, but... first, calling upon the master's energy ensures that you're plugged into a source greater than yourself. second, sword fingers is like using a laser instead of a cannon, so you are employing a smaller volume of energy than you would with an open palm, and it's directed very specifically rather than generally. so, theoretically, you're drawing in more energy through your alignment with the master's (or masters') energy than you are expelling through the sword fingers. that's pretty much the gist of it.

:lol: you should be a little more artful and specific when stating things like this. first, YES YOU DO want to sound harsh! so accept that and move on. i mean, it's perfectly fine with me. second, by making such an overly general statement, you immediately become ridiculous yourself when you state that you consider yourself a buddhist. aside from those things, you're just really unclear. the neighborhood i grew up in is a completely different culture than what most people on this forum grew up with. so what does that mean for my options as someone who wants to grow? and burning incense? perfect meditation posture? what are you talking about??? there IS a point about cultural appropriation that you COULD make, but you're definitely not making it right now. i would recommend more focus and clarity in the point that you're really trying to make. cuz what you just wrote is ALL over the place. you might even consider starting a new thread on cultural appropriation, IF that's even what you're getting at. i'm still not completely sure. EDIT: hmm. have i done it again? too harsh?

the vatos in the neighborhood where i used to live would refer to me a Mr. Miyagi. the first week i was there, there would be chuckles, even a little mockery. whatevs. after a while they got used to my presence there, and they started showing me respect. Mr. Miyagi became a term of endearment. and i'm talking serious, hard-core gang members. in the park early because money doesn't wait. it's just something that people (mostly boys) tend to do. testing the waters. but it was my park, too, and i don't scare very easily. that first week, after my practice, i would make it a point to walk by their picnic table, or i would stand by the court and watch them play basketball for a little while before heading home. little things like smile and nod when someone made a good shot, or laugh a little when someone bricked a 3. just to send a soft message that i'm cool, but i wouldn't be intimidated by their antics or their numbers, but always showing them respect. and in showing respect AND strength, i got respect back in return, without the need for confrontation. after that it was more likely for me to hear things in the background like "chill out, homes, Mr. Miyagi's doing his thing over there." and "that fool is deep, son. you can tell." LOL! people change when given the opportunity. those encounters in the beginning were excellent opportunities for me to practice what i know. admittedly, i'm a big black guy, and i kind of have a flare for the bold & brazen but that doesn't automatically get me free passes in a mexican neighborhood, if you know what i mean. but as committed practitioners, we should be more aware than ordinary people of our power to create the spaces we need, altering the incompatible energies by our influence, rather than being overly influenced by them. these days i live in a much nicer neighborhood, with a really nice park around the corner, and i actually practice less often in this park than i did in my old neighborhood. i actually miss the hood. but whatevs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-WOG7gLHLU&feature=channel

sure you can say that in every generation there are immortals. i would bet my soul on it, easily.

Just for the record, well-placed, and perfect timing on this one, Susan! i was bowled over with laughter and bliss just listening to it! so yeah, thanks for that!

i'm gonna go through your first response a bit, then end with your second one. let's see how this goes. i hear that. i don't agree, but i get how that comes across. THIS i consider a bit caustic and mean-spirited, NOT just blunt. indirectly insulting, so pretty much the opposite of blunt. i don't think i've written anything that reflects this kind of attitude. not intentionally, anyway. fair enough. i actually thought it was better to write my misgivings here because your voice is so highly respected, and i thought it would sort of lessen the negative spin of my post, not to mention foster a good discussion. i didn't really think it through any further than that. everyone says this when defending someone they like. it just doesn't hold much water for me. when i have doubts, i express them. then i get feedback. THEN, maybe i decide to go find out for myself, and maybe i don't. it's a forum, after all. but your below point is well-received: i DO tend to be unintentionally crass at times. personally, i prefer to be crass than to be falsely modest or deceptively polite. that's just how i roll. i think it's more honest than to err in the other direction. but again, that's kind of a cultural thing for me, i think. OUCH! yeah, you're right about that. it's not my book, it's not my work, and so i didn't give it a thought when i wrote that. that was a real dick-move on my part. seriously. it won't happen again. and i'm a little embarrassed that it didn't even occur to me. agreed. totally. and i mean that. i've gone back now and looked at past posts, and i see this. okay then. this is something that needs work. thanks. this has sorta taken over the thread, but this was a dialog that i needed. i see much more clearly now the areas in which i tend to be completely thoughtless. that's gotta change. straight up. when i disagree with something, i like to lay it out and hold my ground, but i'm still trying to learn the value of appropriately holding my tongue. torn between saying the wrong things and saying nothing. haven't quite found the middle way yet. but i'm a lot closer, thanks to this exchange. EDIT: Santi, Salaam to you, brother.

yes, i get it, and i've already responded to this argument. my response was that THIS WASN'T MY POINT. i wasn't questioning the energy projection. i was questioning the seeming theatrics of his movements while making the projection. that's all. i don't doubt his talent.

wow, i just... wow. okay, there's a lot here to address, but i won't bother with a line-by-line examination, since that would only underscore what an ass i am. mjjbecker, Ya Mu, i read both your responses, and i did my best to take stock of them. i even had a long talk with one of my guys today about my attitude, my tendency toward highlighting the negative, and what i consider to be my own forthrightness. before getting defensive, i really do try to take it all in. i went back to my post and i re-read it. i absolutely understand Ya Mu's reaction, and i'll get to that. mjj, not so much. if fact, with the exception of a couple of my inflammatory kunlun posts back in '07, there's more vitriol in what you wrote to me here than i think i have ever written on this forum. nothing i wrote, NOTHING i wrote, was written in a caustic manner. i know that i can be abrasive and confronting, and when i'm wrong about something i tend to show my ass. but i also apologize and take correction very well. becker, YOU seem as if you've been saving up for an opportunity to tell me off about any number of things that haven't sat right with you about me. i say what i mean. oftentimes i say it more harshly than needed just to make sure that i'm not pulling punches or sugar-coating or being falsely modest (or otherwise cowering or "punking out"). that's rooted in MY OWN personal values, and not everybody is comfortable with that. but NO ONE ever has to guess about what i really think. even when i think i'm coming off like an ass, i say what i mean anyway and i remain open to further dialog. as i was here. if you don't like that about me, that's your business. but for some reason you seem to make allowances for very similar traits when they come from Santi. it's one of the reasons i liked him so much when he first joined this board. i found his candor refreshing, although i think he has more of an Alpha personality than i do. btw, what did i say in that exchange that was untoward? anything? i thought i made some pretty clean clarifications, and there was NOTHING malicious in what i stated. merely that there was legitimate reason for some people to get a certain impression about them. and i was honest. your not liking it doesn't even factor into it. not unless you can demonstrate how i was wrong or mean-spirited. i was neither. i still get PM's about training, and i STILL send most of those people to Santiago and Susan. i love BOTH of them. you act like i'm veiling something when i'm not. where i come from it's called keeping it 100. i don't bite my tongue and call it being polite. i don't sugar-coat things and end up losing the original point i wanted to make. and if i go too far, or i turn out to be wrong, i don't hesitate to accept that, to apologize, and to correct myself. that's how we do it where i'm from, and i'm a SAINT compared to the folks i grew up with. and you're way off about my sense of how great i am. i really have to stretch to interpret what i wrote the way that you did. you just don't like many people like me, and that's fine. i still think you're pretty cool, although i won't be going out of my way to strike up another dialog with you any time soon. THIS! yes, this was EXACTLY my assumption, and i think you're totally right. it's something i have faulted JAJ for in the past as well, although not here on this forum. it's one of the reasons i never studied with him in-person, although i now own just about ALL of his books & videos, except for the Daoist mysticism stuff. i probably missed out on some kick-ass training, but a proper meeting of the minds is just as essential as the teacher's skills. right now i have one teacher, and that's Mark Griffin of Hard Light. the man blows my mind with the levels on which we communicate. i learned what Ya Mu acknowledges as the more advanced methods of qi projection without the assistance of a teacher. my personal practice and healing work just evolved that way. and so for me to watch a video from someone i consider to be more advanced in his training than i am, i found it off-putting that he is standing there waving his arms and blowing and whatnot, because i know it's not necessary, and he states this himself. but he's a teacher, and he breaks these things down to make them more accessible. i can respect that, and that also means that i totally jumped to my own conclusions about the video. he didn't make the video with a specific agenda in mind of wowing people, and i thought he did. Ya Mu, i'll respond to you in another post later. but for now, i hope you can accept my apology. i really didn't mean any disrespect. i think i offended you, that offense closed you off to what i was actually trying to convey, but i think that's very understandable. it wasn't so much that i was trying to cut down your practice, although upon re-reading my words it certainly does look that way. but it's just that spontaneous, natural flow is a quality that serves as the basis for the effectiveness of a lot of different systems i've come across. there are thousands of systems out there, literally. but the core elements that make the good systems work are very few. and being as my own path has been very heretical, i've gotten into the habit of reducing systems to their primary core elements. i wasn't disagreeing at all with your student chris. what i was saying was that if chris' interpretation was correct, then the spontaneous, natural flow element in your system is the key to its effectiveness, and since i'm already well-steeped in that quality of practice, i wouldn't find the practice to be very remarkable. perhaps i could have been more skillful in how i expressed that, but i wasn't attempting to cut you down. in fact, i remain quite open to being shown the error in my thinking if there's more to the practice than what was described. i may come off as an ass sometime, but i really do try to be an honest one. well, i guess i already said what i wanted to say. no need for another post. i hope you can accept my apology.

i have to say, i'm a bit surprised to see you (mjjbecker) come out in support of Ya Mu like this. i remember you doing a very similar thing when you supported vajrasattva's work, but i didn't expect lightning to strike twice in this case. i don't know a lot about your history except for superficial details, but i had come to trust your opinion as that of a sincere practitioner and seeker. based on the strength of your review, i'm inclined to purchase the book and see for myself. BUT, since your review is so overwhelmingly positive, i think that makes this thread the appropriate space with which to express my misgivings about Ya Mu's teachings. first, i also read the negative review it was given by a member of this forum, as well as the first response to that review from a guy named chris on amazon.com. if chris' response is in any way an accurate portrayal of Stillness-Movement Qigong, then it's just one of many other schools that employ spontaneous, natural flow qigong, and i probably don't stand to learn much from the book. i DO believe that spontaneous, natural flow is kind of the "hidden secret" of modern day practice that keeps a lot of hard-working students from breaking through to higher levels, but if that's the only true gem that the book has to offer, then i would recommend the textbook that i use which is much more thorough and costs less: Healing Promise of Qi. also, Grandmaster Wong Kiew-Kit, a master who has often been dismissed in this forum (and this continues to perplex me), teaches a method called Flowing Breeze, Swaying Willow, which is also a spontaneous, natural flow practice. it's the foundation of Shaolin Cosmos Qigong. i employ an element of 'natural flow' in every form i practice, and i believe it to be the gem that allows me to accelerate my development (as well as the development of my students) beyond the conventional timeline of the traditional practice. kind of a no-brainer to me, and since Sloppy Zhang recently posted a thread about transmissions, i should also mention that people like Sloppy Zhang pick up clues like this, often under-emphasized in obscure places, and they excel beyond other folks who put in far more hours. Sloppy Zhang is the kind of practitioner that would probably read Ya Mu's book and NOT be impressed. because he already gets it, and he just doesn't get how other committed practitioners don't see it. my own development has followed a very similar trajectory. That having been said, i have still always admired Ya Mu's knowledge in various topics on this board. i rarely find myself in disagreement with his perspective, and he sorta won my heart when he gave honor to Master Duan Zhi Liang in a thread in which he and i were both participating. Master Duan taught me about the importance of honoring the element of chaos in all things, and i believe that THAT'S the basis for Stillness-Movement Qigong as well. many students are indeed missing this and would do well to learn it. but this can be learned in many other styles, which kind of makes Stillness-Movement a bit unremarkable to me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw-aDENlHWA&feature=related but what REALLY put me off of Ya Mu's teachings, and i'm really hoping to get a response/some clarification, is that he posted a video, which i consider to be fraudulent, in order to attract students. http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/14082-stillness-movement-qigong-qi-projection/ it's not the student's movements that i find problematic, as i have clients who shake and twist and move as well. i know that this kind of thing happens. it's the comment he made later on the same page: this killed it for me, and while most might take this as nit-picking, i felt like it makes all the difference in the world. i was very disappointed to see Mr. Lomax resort to theatrics in order to appear more "masterful," more like "the doer with all the power," to attract more people who are seduced by that kind of thing. had he sat cross-legged on the floor, just facing the general direction of the student so we knew who he's directly affecting, and without all the theatrical hand movements, i would have contacted him long ago to study with and perhaps exchange ideas. i understand the impulse to give in to the unnecessary theatrics, as that seems to be what so many are looking for. But i don't respect it. and most importantly, i've never given into it in my own teaching. this is something i've wanted to post since Ya Mu first posted that Stillness-Movement thread, but i'm glad i waited until now. i'm totally open to criticism on this, and if anyone thinks i'm missing something, PLEASE share it. i have always liked Ya Mu and how he represents himself for the most part on TTB, but as a fellow teacher/genuine sincere student of the art, i couldn't just overlook something i consider to be a matter of integrity.

THIS!

this only underscores what shaktimama and i both said: you weren't looking to understand; you were looking for a fight. you haven't shown much of anything here, except your own stubborn dogmatism. there's a reason why christian monks and buddhist monks don't argue over doctrine, and it's not just because they are being polite. the territory is not the map. the tao has no opposite.

okay, this will be my final attempt to get through to you, because i think there are probably others here who don't get the distinction, either. LIFE will bitch-slap you whether you want it to or not. it's that simple. ever get injured? ever lose a job? ever lose someone you love? students submit to Rinzai methods and other practices of "cruelty" so that they can get over themselves AS PREPARATION FOR THE VERY UNFOLDING SANTI IS TALKING ABOUT. those students are agreeing to accept punishment AS TRAINING, even when they don't necessarily want it. they don't get to say "okay, that's enough today." they are training themselves to have equanimity in all things, neither running towards nor running away from whatever arises. Santi made the same agreement when he decided to pursue his path in earnest. as did i. as did shaktimama. what you're arguing about is extremely superficial. life does not wait for your consent. neither will death. it's not your call. and the extent to which you try to hold on to control is the extent to which you will suffer when reality surfaces. i'm happy to make clarifications, but i'm done with the back-n-forth arguing.

okay, you're REALLY showing your immaturity with this comment. i took the time of writing that entire post in an effort to foster greater understanding, but you're choosing to ignore everything else that i have written, isolate ONE sentence, and repeat the same thing you've been saying since your first comment. you're not looking to understand. you're looking for a fight. and just for the record, i've studied shaolin and taoist cultivation methods for my own development as well, and i know almost nothing about the hindu yogas. but i understand that it's silly to argue over dogma, like whether someone is filled with the holy spirit, or swept up in the Big Love of n/om, or is undergoing kundalini awakening. as i say over and over again. just language. just words. i understand the territory, so i tend not to bicker over the map unless the map is too limiting.

you don't seem to get that you're pretty much making our point. what i put in bold is excactly WHY you might find yourself "under the thumb" of shakti, trying to fight against the natural unfolding. you don't have to think of it as a god, or a goddess, or anything. in fact, it's more accurate not to think of it as anything at all, because it is beyond anything that anyone can imagine. just words. language is imperfect. we can continue to have a (somewhat one-sided) debate, or we can have an understanding of where we meet.

you're getting caught up in the language, whereas i'm just trying to convey to you another way to understand it. i know shakti. every moment of every day. i know her. for the christian boy, for whom suppression of adolescent urges and behavior is encourage and expected, he can feel very much like a slave to his desires, passions, rages, confusions, etc. i remember those days. i remember believing i was depraved or that SOMETHING was wrong with me because i couldn't just "stop" being over-emotional or sexually aroused. it was my beliefs about those things that were off, NOT the process of my adolescence. when we are "bitch-slapped" by shakti, it's a wake-up call. we are not in control. we are not in the driver's seat, and we never have been. that is the fundamental assumption samsaric existence. so when we over-step our bounds, thinking we own, or control, or possess, or whatever, and reality shows us that we are not King Shit, it's a bit of a bitch-slap. even Grandmaster Masaaki Hatsumi went through a period where his body was shifting and all he was able to eat was yogurt for like a month. that's humbling, and all you can really do when something like that happens is say, "yes, mommy". but i would submit that your attitude of "no free-will" and being "under the thumb" of shakti is problematic. do you consider yourself to be "under the thumb" of oxygen, or food, or water? are you a slave to your aging process? you can make an argument that, in fact, you ARE a slave to those things, but i'm saying that's a very limited interpretation. fire can burn, but it also gives life. and yes, after years of training, Santi still has times when he gets bitch-slapped. why should it be otherwise? through his training, however, he knows how to roll with it, how to facilitate the necessary unfolding, how to get out of the way, and how to let go. if such ideas frighten you, then perhaps you don't want to develop spiritually, which is fine. Student: What is enlightenment? Suzuki Roshi: What do you want to know for? You may not like it. "One of the greatest misunderstandings that people have is regarding the spiritual journey as a vacation trip." --Chogyam Trungpa

well, yes, of course you grow out of it. not out of shakti, but out of the transitional stages where all manner of things are shifting and changing and scary whatnot. that end stage is called enlightenment. that's the completion that guru-g is talking about in those videos. she is beyond all the "stuff" happening, and she doesn't think anyone should be giving shaktipat until they are there as well. that's a gross over-simplification of her stance, but it's still true. that's not to say that people don't get stuck in puberty and adolescence, but that doesn't disprove the rule, either.

only if you considered puberty to also be a period of oppression. it's an evolutionary shift. the less you resist and go with the natural flow, the fewer growing pains you will experience.

Guru Ganga-Puri (Swami-G) addressed a question today on video about how to give shaktipat properly. whoever wrote to her, thinking she would teach some random person shaktipat techniques, CLEARLY hasn't been paying attention to how she rolls! i thought these were worth posting, however. she offers some very valid perspective, and her answer IS the correct answer within her knowledge tradition. she couldn't give any other answer without being derelict in her responsibility as a Guru. at the same time, though, whoever asked her that question should have come over here to TTB! EDIT: i guess what troubles me about her advice is that she ignores the fact that the person is transmitting inadvertently, anyway. how do you tell a person to NOT do something that is occurring on its own?

you write with clarity. i wish more people wrote like that. if you feel the flow as clearly as you write about, then you are very fortunate. listen to your body before listening to a book. that's not an advice that i would give to everyone, but it seems very likely to be true in your case. run the energy down the front. your body will tell you when it's okay to run it upwards. i do both, but i defer to my body first. if you're really sensitive enough to follow your body's lead, you're going to advance much faster than most of the people on this board. intuition first. THEN books.

yeah, Drew is STUPID-SMART! i'm sure he'll give his own take on this issue, but this is something that was also brought up back in March, and this was my reply: hope this helps. you might find that entire thread interesting: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/13887-qigong-fundamentals/

Susan, Santi, if it's alright with you guys, i wouldn't mind contributing to the global current. just as a way of saying i love and appreciate both of you. Susan, it was really nice to get a woman's perspective on women's issues today. my teacher will be doing a meditation intesive w/shaktipat all day long Saturday, so i will be plenty amped up and happy to share Sunday evening.

um...yeah... i hear ya, and i actually tend toward your attitude in most instances (although i have NO IDEA what you mean by "TRUTH"), but with regard to Master Chunyi Lin, the idea isn't that you will necessarily hurt yourself, but that if something goes awry in your body, he can easily pinpoint where the problem is and make the necessary adjustments. most people aren't developed enough to just "try it and find out," as you put it. most people don't know what the different nuances of the energy mean; they just know when they feel "something" and when they don't, and by the time they realize that severe imbalance is developing, they're not even sure where to start to correct it. i'm the KING of trial-and-error. i've acquired MOST of my knowledge by doing things wrong. sometimes i found useless dogma, but many other times i found the absurdity of my own hubris. there are plenty of qigong sets with which you can experiment if that's your thing, but specific systems like SFQ are set up the way they are for a reason. and for anyone who needs to ask the question which started this thread, it's better to err on the side of caution. it's not a bad thing to have fidelity to your system. it IS a bad thing to presume to know much of anything when one is just starting out.