Sahaj Nath

I'm down. especially if it'll make you look good in the eyes of your boss. i have a client who only buys from adagio. never tried their pu-erh, but the dragonwell is pretty good. just tell me how long you want it to be and any other specifics you want me to cover or mention, and i'll crank that out. good times.

if i might borrow from Kate's expression for a moment: THIS!

right on, i would totally agree with you there. Master Duan is why i chose the name Hundun as my handle here on Tao Bums. i think it's amazing, and i teach it to students all the time, but what Garripoli presents on the instructional video is stripped of everything that makes Wuji Hundun what it is. it might be the fault of the company, GAIAM, and his workshops might be better, but the video is a real disservice to the system, IMO. he mentions mixing up the moves, and that's about it. no whole body breathing, no fluid and changeable expression WITHIN each movement, no real element of natural flow. it's an exercise video, NOT a qigong video.

c'mon, Ya Mu. are you serious? the Wuji that Garripoli teaches (Wuji Hundun Qigong) is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT form, not even close to the primordial Wuji that Winn and Rubbo teach. AND, Garripoli doesn't teach it very well, if you ask me. a student would have to learn the stiff, uninspired form from Garripoli, and then watch the documentary and hope that they can learn the freedom & spontaneity aspects from short clips of master Duan. most people just end up getting a good stretch, and the form never comes alive for them. Primordial Wuji, on the other hand, is a different animal entirely. i would recommend Winn's video over Rubbo's. it's a lot easier to learn than you think. it's the series of turns that makes it look complicated, but once you understand that part (which he explains in about 5 minutes easily), it's not at all difficult. as a newbie, i would start with spring forest qigong for a lot of reasons. whoever told you that the system had no juice was smoking crack. it's the opposite, and anyone with experience can just look at the movements and see why. the movements will energize you and awaken your awareness to the energy faster than most other systems out there. it's ALL about moving and gathering energy; there are ZERO moves for stretching or anything like that in the actual form part. you will probably develop sensitivity to the energy within your first 3 practice sessions. ALSO, he's very free and open in his approach, which keeps you open and not bogged down with dogma that says "you have to do it this way." that's an important quality when starting out. EDIT: if you want a little more, the best i've ever seen on video for beginning practice is Jerry Alan Johnson. His video is outstanding. his movements are PERFECT and effortless. Plus you get some really good theory and internal structure lessons. for the money it might be the best buy out there. i personally think everyone should own it.

um... i don't think that being the author gives you the authority to make a request like this. that book is intellectual property, and it is owned by the publishers. my guess is that you know this. ANYONE WHO JUMPS ON BOARD WITH THIS COULD WIND UP IN SOME SERIOUS LEGAL TROUBLE. just thought i'd put the warning out there. and if this is NOT the case, please give us something more than just your word on that.

the pu-erh at Peet's coffee is of good quality and is very consistent, year after year. it's about $78/lb, or you can buy it in a 1/4 lb tin for $20. i've been drinking pu-erh for some time now, and i've been brewing at least one pot every day for the past 2 years. Peet's takes their quality control very seriously. there was one 3-month period where the (tuo cha) tea compressions were so tight that i couldn't break them up very well. i had to saturate the discs first, and then break them up. but the tea still brewed up nicely. never been disappointed in their pu-erh. that's the only tea that i exclusively buy at Peet's. other sources have failed me on occasion.

to be honest, and i'm sure this has been said before, i really don't know why you guys go out of your way to call out the judgments of others. in my honest opinion, it's the only thing that makes you guys look kind of small. Susan gave some great explanations that were undoubtedly helpful to a number of readers. and the uber-traditional dogmatic guy expressed his opinions to the contrary. he represented himself rather well and didn't just wholesale reject everything, but he's very adamant about distinctions being made to ensure the integrity and authenticity of processes like shaktipat. he's right to feel that way too. his criticism about what happens here in the west is totally legit. but i think it's pretty obvious at this point that his views are not a threat to any of you. the defensiveness that you guys exhibit is the ONLY thing i'm reading that makes me want to question your legitimacy. i have agreed with just about everything shaktimama has written here. so much so, that i didn't feel the need to keep posting responses to yuanqi. but when the tone shifts to a sort of unfairly persecuted victim status, it just wreaks of pettiness to me. Vaj has calmed down quite a bit from when he first began posting here, and i recognize that, but is it really so hard to let yuanqi say his peace and move on? maybe it's just my opinion, but at the end of the day, i don't think you're diminished in the eyes of anyone. that is, until you start pushing back at the small stuff. i hope you can read this criticism in love. i'm not one of your students, but think you guys are pretty cool for what you've done for others.

wasn't all of this addressed already in the post you're responding to? what does "native religion" even mean when you're a christian whose previous FIVE lives were in India? i think the unfolding is just way more nuanced than you're questions are considering. but yet again, i gotta go. it's cushion time!

okay, thanks for the clarification. maybe other people DID know what you were trying to ask; they just chose not to bother. there are plenty of bad drivers with top-of-the-line vehicles, but it would be silly to blame the vehicle for the driver's inadequacies. so yeah, i'd say Vipassana is just as shitty/wonderful as it ever was! Theory of Knowledge: "we see and understand things not as they are, but as we are."

your first post is a run-on sentence that makes the question you're asking rather unclear. either that, or the sentence is missing a word or two, which STILL makes the question you're asking unclear. your second post isn't a whole lot better. maybe you can ask the question in a different way?

Indeed. you saved me some writing, and you have a softer touch than i do, so right on. kundalini (like neidan) is a natural process for which the body is designed. it is not and has never been the sole domain of any tradition. devotion and commitment to a specific path is a beautiful and important thing, but no tradition has a monopoly on nature. that's why i so love the west. for all of our faults we are so apt to take information 50 different places, cross-reference it, strip it of its cultural/traditional trappings, and distill the truth of it (usually this is minus the rules that were set up to preserve the tradition). we obviously have our issues in a thousand other regards, (LOL) but this is one area in which i think we excel. generally speaking.

really? so... people's experiences that are contrary to yours just don't count? and... destructive? what are you even talking about? projecting much?

Right on. and you're right, i didn't sufficiently back up my claim about people getting screwed up from mindfulness practice. it was in my head but didn't quite make it to the page. first time i ever signed up for a 10-day vipassana retreat i was sent a multiple-page form asking about my history of psychological health, addictions, experience with energy work/healing, and i forgot what else. but there were a a whole lot of answers that could have disqualified me. in fact, when i replied that i practice and teach qigong and do healing work, i was told that my practices were not compatible with their program. they went ahead and approved me for one session, but stated that i would not be permitted to return unless i abandoned the practice of qigong. i was a little shocked for a moment, and then i laughed. but i kind of understood how that made me a liability. they are not really equipped to handle someone undergoing a hardcore kundalini eruption, and such occurrences are far more likely in people who do energy-based practices. it would likely trigger the energy of others who share the space, and it could be very disruptive to the retreat. before you know it you've got manic episodes all over the place. well, i'm guessing that was their reasoning, anyway. but THAT'S what i had in mind when i talked about the rules thing. zen sesshins really depend on who is holding them. the Rinzai center at Mt Baldy in SoCal was fine with whatever (come as you are, but keep to our program while you're here), but they had some highly developed monks on-hand (back in '03) whose very presence was probably a sufficient stabilizing force for that kind of thing. that's not the case at other centers, though. some people lose it at meditative intensives. they can't handle the silence and feeling of isolation, all of their neuroses come to the surface, they develop high levels of anxiety or deep depression, and some experience acute psychosis. same thing happens in jails when people are put in segregation. fairly normal occurrence.

what kind of meditation were you practicing? not all meditation techniques are created equal. and what's your experience level, generally speaking? i'm guessing you're fairly new. ...okay, i just read your introduction in the lobby. that's really not much experience, and if you're cultivating your sexual energy through retention practice and then basically dabling your way through meditative experimentation, you can mess yourself up. it was a red flag for me to see your thread title defining the energy at your throat as "negative." blocked energy, perhaps, but negative? that tends to be a novices conclusion for experiences that they don't find favorable. my advice to you would be either to get a real-life teacher, or engage in some DISCIPLINED book study. a good teacher would be best and could save you a lot of unnecessary turmoil. but if you're sharp and disciplined enough to really absorb the material, a book or two will work fine. sloppy zhang's recommendation of dissolving practice is a good one, but it's not something you just employ as a tool only when discomfort arises. its purpose runs deeper than that. it's part of a complete system. for a new person to this work i would take the advice of both Scotty and Mikaelz as theirs was the simplest and most straight-forward, i think. i would also add that i hope you know to keep your tongue raised to the palate whenever practicing. i would also recommend a book: Insight Meditation by Sharon Salzberg and Joseph Goldstein. it's a way to make sure that you start off on the right foot. it's a VERY easy read and provides a great foundation. you'll need that foundation if your practice is going to be enriching. for instance, you'll need to understand attraction & aversion and endeavor to allow sensations to rise and fall without resistance or attachment, or the need to label the experiences as "positive" or "negative." as per your post above, you need to be able to trust that no one has ever been choked to death by a 30-minute meditation, and then simply allow nature to take its course without trying to "do" anything about it. this type of foundation can pay you huge dividends in a very short time, especially if you're building up jing through retention. i hope you find this helpful. it's all in love and service.

hm... maybe i was just really unclear because i was heading out the door when i made that post, but you and i are not talking about the same thing. simple-mindedness and simplicity in life are NOT the same thing. i was really limiting my remarks to the realm of cognition, whereas you're addressing a completely different issue that happens to employ different forms of the word 'simple', but doesn't address cognitive developmental stages. i understand your point, and i agree with some parts of it (although you're making some leaps that make me question your experience), but i'm not sure you understood mine. how can mindfulness practice screw a person up? well... the answer to that question is part of the reason why i made the post. and to spare you any suspense: mindfulness practice screws people up all the time, in myriad ways. just keep reading further down that site. (although i'm sure some will argue that the people were already screwed up and the practices just brought it to the surface. whatevs. same diff.) that's why there are so many rules at vipassana retreats & meditation intensives and why there are so many types of people that they don't accept and why there are tons of 'meditation dangers' sights like the one you're commenting about. psychological upheaval can be tricky, not to mention down-right painful & dangerous. and some people will run before a process is completed and then blame the center or group for screwing up their psyche. happens ALL the time. i think that there's a base-level of understanding and maturity necessary for this work, particularly if someone is attempting to go it alone. some people do more harm to themselves than good, and other people simply just don't get anywhere with their practice in terms of consciousness raising. it's just not as simple as "simplicity is always good."

stay away from meditation. that shit'll kill ya. sloppy zhang gave an excellent reply to meditation specifically. the article covers a ton of other stuff, not necessarily about meditation proper. kind of like a warning to the simple-minded, IMO. people who operate at a cognitive level of extreme deference to authority and rules probably shouldn't be embarking on this journey, at least not without the supervision of a psychologist. i think proper spiritual development requires either a very good guru/master, or a functional cognition that is AT LEAST somewhere between rational and post-rational, borrowing from the framework of spiral dynamics. plus, you can't be lazy. you've gotta be willing to do your homework and not just pick up a single book that you choose to follow blindly without having acquired a real understanding of the material. i don't know. that's kind of how i see it. but i gotta go.

Thanks, Trunk! i truly adore this man. if you have any other hard-to-find materials, keep 'em coming!

if people here know anything at all about me, they know about my irreverence toward most teachers/masters. i have so little esteem for so many that it's almost pathological! Hahahaha! i just haven't encountered many who could take me further than a step or two beyond my natural inclination. but Mark is a teacher who shines like the sun. he's intelligent without being ostentatious. he's clear without being simple-minded. and his transmissions are at once profound, mysterious, clean, and effortless. i've never wanted to submit to a teacher's authority before. what can i say, i've got trust issues. but i find it very easy to receive him without walls of mistrust & skepticism. which is not to say that i have chosen to become a mindless disciple. in fact, kind of the opposite. i do my thing, i receive his teachings as a great spiritual friend and big brother (whom i may or may not take after), and i trust his UNBORN wisdom implicitly. certainly not everyone will have my experience, and to expect that would almost guarantee disappointment. but i am prepared to embrace him as my root guru. thoughts, feelings, and images surrounding the initial traumatic shift ARE standard, i believe. not so sure about the "sending to that dimension" part though. i've never found it necessary. everything affecting the person from the past is arising in the moment, so for me it would be obscuring and overly mystifying to send energy to any child (for instance) other than the child that is present currently in the person i'm treating. maybe it's just a different way of stating the same thing. *shrugs*

um... what are your interests/goals in studying qigong? it makes a difference. 90% of what you learn at Healing Tao is NOT gonna be something you'll teach at the Y or a senior center. so if you just enjoy qigong as a movement practice and would like to share it, a.) certification isn't necessarily required if you can demonstrate proficiency & enthusiasm to the facility manager(s), and b.) if you are still very much a novice yourself (which i'm guessing you might be) there are far simpler programs out there that are designed specifically for laypeople and focus on breathing, relaxation, focus, posture, and movement. for the kinds of classes you'd be teaching at the Y or a senior center, you really want to keep it simple. so yeah, what do you really want? are you interested in alchemy? awakening? healing? basic health maintenance? and what is your experience? Healing Tao is very worth your time, if you're into what they're teaching. they teach it well. but if what you're really into is more about serving your community and helping people improve their health, i'd say go elsewhere for that. i'll try to check this thread later, but i don't spend much time here, so feel free to contact me directly if you like.

yeah, i read your stated intent, but that doesn't alleviate the consequences of such material when it gets embraced and normalized as a set of rules by others. what help is this to flawed individuals like myself? more often than not, if i were to accept it at face-value, it would encourage suppression and disassociation if i believe that "true spiritual people don't feel/act the way i do." for some reason i'm reminded of all the poor, psychologically damaged christian youths who hate themselves for masturbating, and walk around pretending they're beyond it. LOL! i mean, if you don't mind my saying (of course, i'm gonna say it anyways), for all of your awareness and intent to help your fellow travelers, you just don't seem able to see the nose on your own face. like with most people's shadow material, it's obvious to the folks around them. for instance: never mind the fact that the second statement is naive and wrong (i know, i'm such a 3 & 6, right? ), but do you honestly not see the the contradiction/hypocrisy between the first and the second sentence? i readily own my character flaws, as do many of us. do you? cuz you're not demonstrating it here. but either way, we are still no less able to be god-sends in the lives of others when the opportunity arises. and it certainly doesn't stop us from spiritual growth, although SO MANY people wish that this were true! the universe doesn't give a shit about my attitude problems; people like YOU do! (okay, i care, too. but my point is that it's not a deal-breaker.) um... so? what is this supposed to even mean? i've been humbled many-a-time, brought to my knees and to tears, and not just by formal training, either. and your teacher and teacher's teacher? i'm assuming you're implying they are spiritually advanced? so, assuming that's true, i wonder if either or both of them were racist, or homophobic, or sexist. because SO OFTEN they are, and yet they seem to advance just fine. that's all i'm sayin'. yeah. that first sentence. i think that's what i'm saying. LOL! dude, i think most of us get it. and for the record, i face my mind daily. my living room is like a zendo and i don't take days off from that work. but whether you like it or not, THIS (and by 'this' i mean 'me') is what that kind of work looks like, too! i don't own a television. i'm not plugged into pop-culture. and none of my attitude flaws define me as a spiritual being. 30 years from now i'll still be an ass from time-to-time, as much as i am a saint. but if that part of me somehow dissolves away, and i magically become pure saint, then great. whatever. but today, i choose to celebrate all of me. "beautiful and grotesque." hope this discussion doesn't drain you too much.

i've gotta say it. as a self professed #3, i find this kind of labeling stupid. first off, whether any of you want to admit it or not, it IS a witch-hunt of sorts. it's labeling many different types of behavior as this one 'bad thing,' exaggerating much of its consequence, and encouraging the singling out or the rejection of those who fit the extremely broad definition. and yeah, the definition is as broad and open-ended as Bush's definition of terror. EVERYONE fits some aspect of the criteria at one point or another. plus, calling it all 'emotional vampirism' is ridic. just about anything that can be regarded as 'negative' can be termed 'vampiric' under this description. so... when the perpetual victim-type is grouped under the same heading as the perpetual aggressor-type, what kind of understanding is really gained? any pattern of behavior we find disagreeable can trigger resistance within us and drain us of energy. so with the way each of these sub-categories are defined, aren't we ALL vampires to one extent or another? i just think it's stupid. my criticism here meets the criteria of #s 2, 3, 4, and 6. wow, i must be a fucking monster! give me a break, dude.

i concur. i feel like singing "wind beneath my wings" right now.

hey Kate, well, when you say something like "ALL qigong," certainly there are exceptions, so i wouldn't say all. for instance, there are many static qigong and neigong practices that wouldn't readily qualify as having an innate spontaneous quality, at least not on the surface. however, those practices can still reveal and awaken energy lines & reservoirs & states of consciousness that the practitioner may do well to explore in spontaneous natural flow AFTERWARD. i practice a shaolin system called wei tuo qigong, for instance, and the movements & mental direction are very rigid & precise, not allowing for a whole lot of play or spontaneity, but AFTER i'm done with the form i'll pull down the heavens a few times, stand in wuji for a while, and just let my body go and bear witness to what arises. it's a beautiful thing. but also, not all qigong practices are created equal. the trouble might be that not all practitioners are created equal, either. i've met one guy who a certified tai chi 'master' who believed that chi was just a state of relaxed focus and a sunken center of gravity. he'd been teaching for nearly 10 years, and yet his first conscious experience of qi-flow was during a session with me. i honestly didn't think that was even possible! this may be a 'western' issue, resulting from people living too much in their heads. but still, a certified master? seriously? *shrugs* but as for what you're talking about, i would definitely say as a general rule that most qigong forms have space for some play and spontaneity. it's a beautiful thing to come to on your own, Kate. if you know you can hear the music, don't let anyone take that away from you. i've only met one teacher to encourage me in that direction. he was as irreverent toward external structures and authorities as i am. he was also amazing. i don't remember if you were around when i went to one of max's seminars, but he wrote me a letter before i went that i wasn't to open until i returned from the workshop. the letter highlighted what he knew my experience would be, and he encouraged me to put even more faith in the master within. his letter was right-on, and it brought me to tears. maybe not in this thread, but i would love to hear about your practice some time.

it's been a while since i've been around, but i've really missed having regular dialogues with with folks like yourself. i mean that. for you, anything! well, not everything. one person i mentioned in another thread, and that's David Allen Hulse. you'd be hard-pressed to find a more evolved master in the western esoteric traditions. i list him because he's someone you can actually google. he's an author, and his ciphers are broader and deeper than anything that has ever been publish. probably the most underrated magickian in the public sphere. but he's actually not public at all. the other names wouldn't ring a bell. they're not public figures, never wrote books, never had large followings. what they could do, however, was know my internal condition at a glance, and even tell me stories of my own past & give me advice about the future. they could read and adjust my posture without ever looking at me or ever touching me. and one had a presence so strong that i would fall into spontaneous movement and cry & laugh when i got close to them. i can say that much. and i'm pretty sure you're know folks like this given some of your posts in the past. hell, you might even BE folks like this! this is probably the main point of contention between us. there are a lot of assumptions in this statement about what can and cannot develop with the practice of qigong. maybe i was just really fortunate to meet who i've met, or maybe i was just born under the right star or something, but the evolution of my practice has been a process of realizing, not studying. what i needed to study was the foundation, the basics. but alchemy is a NATURAL process for which the body is designed. with right practice, it arises and makes itself known as IT needs to. we need only to avail ourselves to it. in other words, with right mind and right practice, there is very little within nature that needs to be taught. in some ways, i am in agreement with this. the first statement, for instance. i guess my question to you would be WHAT do you think makes them unavailable to us? cuz i DO believe they are just there for the taking. my path has proven this to me, even in spite of my moments of ignorance, denial, and wishful thinking. what i believe is that Real secrets are not secrets because they are hidden or withheld, but rather because the individual fails to see, or hear, or understand. but for THAT, it's ALL there for the taking. i think i've been clear here, but i've been wrong about that before, so let me offer a really small example. i was never taught reverse breathing when i first started practicing it. it's something that revealed itself to me in regular practice and i opened myself up to it. and even now i never practice reverse breathing unless it arises naturally. same thing with whole body breathing. and the orbits. and more. F*&% the protocols of tradition. only the deaf & blind need them. but for those who can feel the dance and hear the music, it really is there for the taking. i don't mean to be disrespectful in that last comment. that's just how i roll.

DAMNIT! sorry to break my promise. i said i wouldn't post in this thread again, but i've always admired & enjoyed taomeow's perspective on things, even when i've disagreed. but this? this analogy of yours is beyond the pale. i'm shocked that you could say something so... irresponsible. that's the least inflammatory word that comes to mind in this instance. i'm not gonna engage in a tit-for-tat, and i doubt that taomeow would, either. but to borrow from the analogy: the greatest surgeons i've had the privilege of knowing in the east and in the west had one thing in common: they believed that, at the end of the day, everything that you needed was already there in the simple game of Operation. i'll leave it there.