Sahaj Nath

the most important thing is to establish a regular practice of cultivation. learn a qigong form. start practicing hatha or (my personal favorite) vinyasa flow yoga. adopt a reverent attitude for the SOURCE to be manifest in the healing process. i maintain an attitude of inviting the presence, rather than and attitude of "using the energy." mindset is everything. the symbols may actually help to remove you from the process, but i almost never use them these days. but the real key is to establish a mindfulness that you are a vessel for healing energy, and there are things you can do, and things you should probably stop doing, to live up to that calling. qi push-ups are a must, so find a daily practice. spring forest qigong is extremely simple, so if you don't have a practice yet, i say that's a great place to start.

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okay, i admit that i don't have my 3rd eye open. does that make your flippant remark any less offensive? no. your stories the SAME STORIES YOU ALWAYS WRITE. EVERYWHERE. i get it already. what i don't get is why your amazing, out-of-this-world system with the greatest master of all time isn't AT ALL the way that HE HIMSELF portrays it. i've spoken to students of his, and a friend of mine had an over-the phone healing session with him. you're the only one making him look like luke skywalker. why aren't you authorized to teach by him if you're so damn evolved? aside from the hard-sell approach you make for your practices, i've always sort of liked you. why can't you just acknowledge that your remark about el collie was cold and glib? you didn't know her. you don't know what she knew, or who she knew, or what she tried, or how awakened she was. it's a big world out there; some even believe that its bigger than one practice. gopi krishna rocked the full-lotus, if i recall. didn't do a whole hell of a lot to ease his condition.

maybe this one's a little too personal to me, but you really sound like an ass with that comment.

yes, i did make that assumption. my bad. right on. *bows humbly*

what's hard to believe about this claim? even at my level (and i'm pretty sure my K's not fully awakened) i have new students open up just by being around me. there was one kid who was a bujinkan (ninjitsu) student who thought it was all bullshit for the most part. in the middle of our discussion at a bookstore his 3rd eye, crown, and palms all started tingling. he felt a slight magnetic 'disorientation' and was feeling heat in his body. i wasn't even doing anything intentionally, and he was a skeptic, but it happened. another time when i was in college i led nightly meditation sessions where i would generate a strong field of energy and those who were present could tap into it. i was actually telling the kid that lived next door to me that i wasn't going open him up on the last day of school because he hadn't demonstrated any commitment over the months by showing up or doing anything with the group. during THAT discussion, with me being all superior and whatnot, he opened up anyway. his energy ran cold. the energy emitted from his palm felt like a cool, tingly breeze. today he's totally committed to his spiritual path, independent of me. i consider him a brother. our energy fields are always interacting with each other. we are all overlapping right now. i think there's truth in that. that's what had me so damned conflicted about max and kunlun 7 months ago. i wanted to like him, but i thought he was liar and really lacking in depth per our discussions. he had breadth of knowledge, but his understanding seemed really surface-level and disorganized. and i just couldn't go along with that. that's not how i'm wired. i really liked him as an individual, but i could never be his student. i agree with the the playful part, but i see more than just mischief there. i think that he takes advantage of the n00biness of his audience because it allows him to get away with stuff that they don't have the background to question. i don't think he's malicious at all, though. i think he's a wonderful guy in a lot of ways. but i honestly think that he's made himself out to be WAY more than he actually is. i'm still uncomfortable laying that all at his feet. i think mantra is the business guy, so i think a lot of the problem with max's 'packaging' has to do with the perceived need for a marketable image. this was all debated many months ago. i sincerely believe that he's doing a great service to a lot of people. i just don't think he's all that to folks who are further along the path.

in a nutshell, proper training is the only real antidote. there was so much we didn't know about the process back then. we were all wandering around in the dark trying to figure it out. a few people claimed to understand it all, but very few of them actually did. i trust that Glenn's system has worked it out. Glenn wasn't bullshit. he did his homework, which so many would-be masters always want to avoid for some reason. i plan to do the KAP workshop at some point. i want to learn everything i don't know, about the process so i can be more skillful with my students and clients. 'crudely analogous' is how i would put it. but yeah, i think that's a functional analogy. i've only had really minor kriya episodes, which is one of the reasons i'm not quick to say that i have a fully awakened K.

this is simply not true. kunlun school is one of the oldest disciplined schools still in existence. it predates wudan by about 1,000 years. as i said, the wild goose system is of the kunlun school. it's over 1800 years old.

that's cool if he said that. that's NOT what was said at the San Francisco seminar, though. not even close. weeks after the seminar when i brought up the matter because they had talked about how dangerous it was to mix the two, chris then clarified and said that kundalini might be something you experience as a result of kunlun, but kunlun had to fully awaken first for it to be safe. something like that. the story changed a few times, but in the beginning it was all about the danger of mixing the upward with the downward. i believe that said you'd go crazy. i think i still have a recording of it. it really did seem as if they were making up this stuff as they went along. that's the kind of stuff that ultimately led to me rejecting max's stuff altogether. i just couldn't trust them.

i study kunlun school wild goose qigong, and it is a very different system. there are 72 levels, and so far i'm only privy to the first 12, so i can't really comment on the highest level stuff. but from the beginning you're taught to lose yourself in the beauty of the form, playfully. the microcosmic orbit is stimulated naturally through movement rather than being directed. no intention, no direction, just play the form and allow what naturally occurs to occur. it's the first system i've ever come across that has that particular approach. you stretch the body and you play the form, but you don't direct. the still meditative forms that i know are very similar.

yeah, me too. and his 'magnetism' energy sounds to me like qi. my K stirred up for many days after receiving his transmission. it troubled me that he was so steadfast against mixing his practice with K because that was exactly what was triggered in me. i thought he was making false distinctions to give his practice more uniqueness and rarity. yo vortex, no one can tell you it's safe to do both, only that max was steadfast against it. he actually made it sound as if you would explode or something. i say be daring if you're drawn to it. i'd bet that the caution was largely bogus and both K's dance with a common current. if you decide to go to the KAP workshop, i'll start practicing kunlun 1 so we can be in the same boat together. K^2

i'm talking a long time ago, bro. that forum doesn't exist anymore. it was a kundalini support group founded by a woman named el collie who died some time ago as well. she'd had a very intense K awakening that was very debilitating at times. i don't know how much you've followed my posts on this forum, but i talked a bit about that time period for me way back in august, i think. i even talked about meeting the guy who would become my teacher and taught me a couple of tricks for easing the intensities of what i was going through. he touched my third eye and things in my body immediately calmed down. you're welcome to look up el collie, but i doubt you'll find much. the forum went off line ages ago. but it was a place where lots of folks went and asked questions and shared remedies for their kundalini trials. people shared their practices sometimes, too. but it could be pretty new-agey at times, and that sucked. i guess it wasn't really like TTB but it's the only other forum of a spiritual nature that i've ever been on, and a lot of advice was asked for and shared. i miss her. btw, i hear there are some good topics and experiences shared and explored over at AYP.

i do my best to write clearly, but everyone seems to miss me. i agree with you. what i'm saying is that with an effective practice, you'll get to the root. it'll bring all of that trauma front and center. i'd never suggest an overly mechanistic approach, but mechanistic isn't inherently bad, either. i do this stuff for a living. i live this stuff. i'm saying essentially that oftentimes exercising and communing with the disturbance in the body can be more effective than trying to 'figure out' the issues of the past. if your mind is the problem, chances are that you're not going to think your way to healing. but you can't avoid it. it's more about embracing, without condition. it's about allowing, without judgment. (wow, i think i just answered my own question about the kunlun threads. funny how that happens sometimes.) let me use myself as an example for a moment. i endured quite a bit of abuse growing up. i experienced down-right terror at times. however, i was also raised with the belief that there's nothing worse than a man who is weak, so i effectively blinded myself to my own trauma for decades. i also happen to have a high IQ, complete with all the exquisite hyper-sensitivities that go with that. but counseling never got me anywhere. psychological models were overly simplistic and i found that i could always beat psychologists at their own game. even got a certificate and letter of accomplishment from one who invited me to assistant him. to this day he thinks he saw me. he thinks he knows my real story. and he thinks he helped me. for me, it was my spiritual work that brought me face-to-face with my childhood trauma. i carry it with me every moment. it's almost like carrying a wounded child in my stomach. so i don't advocate avoiding the real work. not by a long shot. i just know that tackling it directly isn't always the best approach when one is willfully blind and in a constant state of avoidance, as i was. and as many are. it's best to address the matter on multiple fronts.

the only thing i would add to what vortex said is that it works both ways; you can work on the cause to heal the effect, and you can also work on the effect to start healing the cause. if they're linked, it doesn't matter a whole lot which one you start with; you'll wind up dealing with both. stretching, relaxation. meditation. qigong. you may even find that certain exercises stir up the greif and fear. meditate in the presence of the kunlun energy. it might make a lot of other methods unnecessary.

i assume you're referring to me. i'm not at all hostile. look at some of my posts from 7 months ago. THAT was hostile! i'm making a valid point. it's not an attack on any of you who are getting a lot out of your practice. but freedom of choice is hindered when so many other threads get pushed into oblivion because of all the kunlun discussion. i guess i just don't see why a subforum can't be made since mantra's site is apparently not working for everybody.

you're right, he didn't mean it as a completely blanket statement, i.e. he didn't mean you couldn't do any yoga. but you're talking about direct kundalini activation! i don't think you can get more exact to what he was warning against than that. i wasn't saying why study anything else. i was saying why go for an upward flow awakening when you have chosen downward flow which is supposed to get you the same place faster and safer?

V will answer on his own, but hasn't your question about mixing kunlun with kundalini been answered a million times? max warns against it. chris warns against it. and why would you even need it if you're doing kunlun?

how is your digestion? how are your kidneys? do you think this is in any way linked to internal practices you've been doing? what have you been doing?

i asked what have you studied and for how long. you told me what you practiced. that doesn't answer my question. or maybe it does. you're playing with fire. you seem to know almost nothing about what you're attempting to practice. you haven't studied enough. you grabbed an exercise off the internet and then considered yourself skilled enough to start making up practices? practices that mess with the crown and spine?? are you stoned??? if you had read even one decent introductory book, you should have known about the hui yin/perineum. especially if you've been practicing the tree pose! you need a teacher. you're making WAY too many assumptions about what the sensations mean that you've experienced up to this point. you need to stop playing with powerful practices you got off the internet until you've done some real study. many of us can give you a reading list. but if you're gonna go deep, you can't be lazy with the homework. not if you're gonna try to go your path alone. idon't know anyone in finland, unfortunately. if you don't stop playing with this stuff, you can damage yourself in a way that will prevent you from reaching high levels.

*sigh* my first thought reading this post was 'how old is this guy?' given how wrong you were about the remedy for your initial condition, how are you so certain that you had diagnosed the problem correctly? "My chi had gone to the wrong channels in the legs and were leaking sexual energy..." --what made you reach that conclusion? what have you been practicing? have you been keeping your tongue up in your practices? lightly contracting the hui yin? how much study have you done prior to this? and what did you study? if you lived near me i could probably straighten you out in one afternoon. you don't sound like you're in too bad of shape. especially if you're talking about getting back on track with your practices. if you were in really bad shape, you would just want out, and you probably wouldn't want to mess with this stuff ever again. i've met people like that. hell, i've BEEN people like that! lol! i kid you not. so where are you located? i may know someone in your area with the skills to straighten you out, and maybe even give you some necessary instruction.

it's been at least 9 months now that kunlun has dominated the forum. how long did the previous 'trends' last? i understand sean's position, but i think it's a little abstract and hypothetical, and ignores the blatant reality of what's happening. the book store analogy was a very bad one. we could only walk past the 'section' if kunlun were actually IN a particular section. that's the point! before i left the forum for 6 months i was a harsh critic of kunlun. i did the workshop, and i won't do it again. it took time for me to appreciate what max DOES offer beneath all the claims and propaganda. i'm genuinely happy that so many people are getting so much out of it. the topic would have died off ages ago if there wasn't 'something' there. but lots of good topics are getting lost amid the chatter about kunlun. (i hate calling it kunlun, btw. i practice a kunlun art that has NOTHING to do with what max teaches.) and i'm willing to bet a lot of people with valuable things to contribute to this community will leave or remain silent if 'something' isn't done. it's been at least 9 months now. how much more time should we give it? everyone wants to connect with new and special people the way that the kunlun people connect with each other on this forum. but it seems that the kunlun-er connections are propagating at the expense of the rest of us. i met a teacher who really changed my life on a forum not unlike this one. how many people are missing that opportunity right now?

if that's where you are in your head space, forget about kundalini for the time being. try surrender. daily communion with the space that's within you and around you. i'm talking about quiet meditation, but i use the word 'communion' to indicate your attitudinal approach. you'll never escape, and you don't have to 'endure' the dualities and cycles anymore than the river has to 'endure' its own currents. plus, if you can't 'endure' what you face now, what makes you think you can succeed at the Great Work? if you're sick of duality, then forget about escape, for the very notion recreates it. as if there is 'escape' vs. 'embrace' no. there IS NO transcendence without embrace. you need to find a spiritual teacher. or a counselor. i gotta go to bed. feel free to PM me if you like. i probably know of someone in your area.

agreed. although i'd amend one thing: Reiki by itself = spray bottle spritz, potentially with contaminated water.

yeah, i know the concept. it's quite common. i got my master initiation back in 1997 and i studied everything there was to study on the subject, which wasn't much. what i'm saying is a.) if you don't cultivate right mind, then it will drain you anyway because you are ego-invested in the process. and b.) the "flowing through you rather than from you" concept holds true for qigong as well if right mind is cultivated. that's what i'm talking about when i refer to healthy mindsets. many reiki practitioners drain themselves. using too much effort in what should be an effortless process. tying their sense of self to the effectiveness of their treatments. also, rama's perspective doesn't account for why two reiki masters using the exact same technique can get different results.

lol! hilarious title, bro! umm... what exactly is taking so long with the kunlun forum idea? even if mantra's not ready to start one on his site, why can't it at least be a sub-forum like the book club thing?