Sahaj Nath

wow! this was a damn good post! (no offense, but i hope this essay is your original work, as plagiarism is sort of forbidden here. the "multi-orgasmic" phrase made me wonder.) my only caution (as i stated in your journal) would be to skip right past the crown and move directly to the 3rd eye. focusing on the crown is a major pitfall where SO many people get into trouble with cultivation. it's dangerous and completely unnecessary.

lol! that's some story. just funny how things can unfold sometimes. =)

karen pretty much covered it, so my $0.02 will just be that. the key in most chronic illnesses is the same in cultivation: the greatest determinant is the quality of the individual. it's not merely a matter of what kind of disease the person has, but also what kind of person has the disease. the liver is the seat of anger, frustration, and half of stress (the other half of stress resides in the kidneys, the seat of fear). if the person is quick-tempered or prone to high stress, then cleansing is a great place to start. organic pu-erh for clensing. very dark tea, thick as coffee, but surprisingly low in caffeine. this will aid in cleansing the liver, but will really work in detoxing the digestive track. it's probiotic with living, positive bacteria. it's the only tea i know that can be aged like wine. organic rooibos for nourishing the lungs. in africa the folk healers would use this herb to treat asthma. this will actually help the body take in more qi and nourish the oxygen-starved areas of the body. gentle, but effective teas can make a difference, if supported by necessary life changes and a little bit of energy therapy. i have had success treating this illness (and am currently treating someone with all the same symptoms), but it's not the same for everybody. this person is not likely to recover if they take a couple of pieces of advice on diet and remedy, but continues with the same life pattern that got them there. chronic illness doesn't happen overnight. it's a consistent pattern over years that eventually breaks a threshold point where it manifests as a physical condition. it's important to figure out what life-patterns contribute to the condition. that's about all i can say without know anything about the person. the two teas are very safe and will very likely raise the person's energy levels immediately. the rooibos in particular with help to better oxygenate the blood which could decrease inflammation and lessen pain. i can't make any promises, but then, it's just tea, so what would they have to lose? if the person has any issues with caffeine, the rooibos has no caffeine at all. just hearty goodness. the person should meet with either a good herbalist or a good acupuncturist. unless, of course, they're in proximity to a good qigong healer.

1.) perhaps, but it doesn't change the fact that i don't make the distinction between 'play' and 'dance.' and... 2.) perhaps not. many chinese practitioners (and many masters) DO, in fact, refer to the forms as dances, either a.) because they see in the association the same light-hearted sensibility that i do, or b.) because they recognize and honor the shamanic roots of qigong when all forms were dances- dances with purpose, internal structure, meaning, and connectedness, to name but a few. i don't know any serious cultivators or masters who fail to see that dance is oftentimes highly stylized and disciplined. i also don't know any serious cultivators or masters who fail to recognize that the requirements for transmitting a particular lineage (which you seem to be implying) are NOT necessarily requirements for authentic cultivation. and... 3.) what does it even matter? i'll concede that you're right and i'm wrong if it will satisfy you in some way. what's the impact? it was not my intention to offend anyone. and lastly, 4.) your comment, though unintentional, just caricatured an entire race of people. "they" are not a homogeneous group and are entitled to determine *for themselves* what they believe and why, not to mention whether or not "they" choose to be "too polite to say anything" in any given occasion.

there is a shaolin wanham instructor in gainsville, florida. his name is anthony korahais. http://flowingzen.com/ he is a disciple of wong kiew kit (the guy who split clouds that i talked about in the other thread). he's very knowledgeable, very real, very no-nonsense in his approach to qigong and martial arts. i don't know how far miami is from gainsville, but perhaps at some point (even in a year or so) you can go there. however far gainsville is, it's an achievable goal to set.

good suggestion with the wuji posture. as simple as the posture is, however, it's very easy to get it wrong. mantis, if you don't know the basic mechanics of standing posture, and if you don't have a teacher nearby, i would suggest a video. it's the best video i've seen in covering the foundation of moving practice (which most often begins with wuji). tai chi connections, by ymaa. http://www.amazon.com/Tai-Chi-Connections-...4260&sr=8-1 this video changed my teaching approach. i'm sure it will serve you well. between this video and the last book i suggested, The Healing Promise of Qi, you'd be building an awesome foundation. better than many experienced practitioners. you're on the right track with going deep on a small number of exercises. and if you're getting good results from the seated practice, don't give it up.

never thought i could be blown away in under 2 minutes! simply amazing. thank you for sharing this.

i understand what you're saying. and believe it or not, i agree with you that crack-pot psychics and magicians trivialize the authentic. i just didn't want to get sucked into this kind of discussion. so, as will probably be a consistent pattern of mine on this forum, i will say what i have to say, and then leave it at that. if your example of a person seeing a hidden object is drawn from my description of my student's abilities, then you have already jumped to conclusions that i never claimed. i never said he could 'see hidden objects.' he can't. and if he could, it still probably wouldn't occur the way you seem to assume in this statement. perhaps it's my fault. i'll try to clarify a little. i'm going to assume (or at least HOPE) that i don't have to spend hours writing an essay on the nature of qi energy. it's not limited to one aspect, but i think that viewing it in terms of bioelectricity is an easier, less threatening way of having the discussion. so, for the sake of this conversation, i'm going to say that qi is nothing more than bioelectricity, which is already an accepted scientific fact of our biological make-up. well, it's also accepted that (keeping in mind that we live on a big electromagnetic rock) all matter possesses a degree of electromagnetism. everything has a subtle electromagnetic trace, if you will. someone who has trained to store, refine, and intensify their bioelectricity is capable of sensing the electromagnetic trace of other objects, and as their sensitivity refines, they are even capable of sensing objects within objects, being that the trace of the two objects will have subtle differences. this isn't mystical or magical. none of it is. and it doesn't take a high level of ability to do stuff like what i described, as he's only been training for a year. and contrary to popular belief, this stuff HAS been verified and documented for years. the book The Body Electric might be a good starting point for many of you science-minded folks who have a sincere interest in this matter. what my student can do is simply place his hand over a few buckets and feel which bucket gives off a stronger intensity. and there are many conditions under which this would not work. the presence of stronger fields in the room could throw it off, as he would be unable to differentiate the currents. but it's not magic. it just looks that way to the unconscious (asleep) on-looker. and if he reaches the level where he actually CAN see the object underneath, it will be largely based on the same principle, but with his eyes doing a much more refined differentiating. science is not waiting on proof. the jury is back on these phenomena. conflict occurs when skeptics hear about something they know nothing about, imagine in their minds 'how' it would take place if it could take place at all, and then judge others based on their own unfounded assumptions about the process. they presume that they can test something that they don't understand, and create conditions that could influence the outcome. his empathic ability, healing ability, and liquid changing ability, are all based on the same principles. that's why they were the ones used for the example. many twins are able to communicate across great distances because the mind frequencies in the resonant cavity between their brain lobes and the skull (what lao tzu call the valley of the spirit, located behind the 3rd eye point) are so perfectly aligned. this, too, has been scientifically documented. but put two of these twins in the same room with either a cell phone or WiFi frequencies present, and the outcome might be different. it's almost impossible to account for all of the influences. but either way, when you understand the process, the magic goes away. electricity is more than just the stuff that makes your computer function. it's so much more than that. Benjamin Franklin knew this. people die from harmful electromagnetic fields (power lines) every year. is it so hard to believe that people can also be healed by fields of a different frequency? hitting a key on the piano will vibrate the corresponding string on a guitar 20 feet away. is that supernatural? these are all simple, simple things. some of us are just more conscious (awake) and purposeful with the use of the phenomenon than others. "no, i've never heard of water," said the fish. "why do you ask?"

i figured the conversation would move in this direction. i'll choose my words more carefully in the future.

i don't know the tone of your question. "Hei" is hard to translate, and you could be saying "hey" or "heh," and those imply two very different sentiments. the two question marks leads me to think you meant the latter. either way: my intention was merely to illustrate a point. abilities are not hard to come by. they happen on their own with consistent daily practice. i'm sure there are a number of people on this forum who both have and teach others to develop various abilities. i don't want to answer your question because i feel it moves the conversation in the wrong direction. however, i know how irritating those kinds of responses can be, so i'll share a little. his talent as a healer is rapidly increasing. he's becoming a talented empath. he can make out the energy currents in another person's body, though he's still not skilled at manipulating them yet. he can change the taste of any liquid just by placing his hand over it for about 30 seconds. in a row of 5 overturned buckets he can consistently find the stone or small cup of water hidden underneath. ...and other stuff. not really important. what's important is that as he develops he realizes that parlor tricks don't bring fulfillment. he believes in genuine service, just as i do, which is why he's decided to stay with me and develop as a healer. improving the lives of others is real magic. we learn so much about ourselves and about life when we dive into the depths of another.

i'm not your teacher, so it's not my business, i guess. i'll just comment a little on your response, and then i'll leave it alone. any experienced person reading this thread would question the quality of your practice these past two years. a.) it sounds like 'fantasy' seeking when you begin by saying you learned about it in kung fu flicks. it sounds even moreseo like 'fantasy' seeking when you presume that this relatively basic martial arts practice is, as you put it, "terribly secretive." b.) your "messing around" practice of visualizing earth qi creating an inner ivory-colored body and then going over to hit stuff to see if 'it works' makes sense only if you're a novice. two years of real meditation would never have led to this experiment of yours. c.) perhaps you just didn't explain explain everything, but i'm not convinced that your practice of the orbit is safe. you didn't even mention the perineum or the tongue. and your description of what you feel afterwards is an effect of deep breathing, not orbital flow. i'm a person who has was proficient at iron shirt. i'm a person who teaches safe orbital flow and who has experienced (in the past) some of the negative side-effects of incorrect practice. i'm not wasting my time here just to be judgmental of you. but you need some real training and deeper understanding before you can lay claim to two years of meditation experience. your own words betray that fact. feel free to ignore me. but i still say that you should slow down. keep it simple. you're missing out on a world of learning experiences by thinking you're further along than you actually are. in the end, it's your path. it's your choice.

it may help if you could define what you mean by "documented abilities." healing ability is very important, but it's considered to be a rather low level of cultivation. wong kiew kit teaches publicly, and many of his abilities are documented. perhaps the most impressive one being when he and one of his students split clouds in front of a crowd of hundreds. it made the paper. if abilities where what i was looking for in a public teacher, i would probably train with jerry alan johnson. his sincere pursuit of the internal arts is unquestionable, in my opinion. i have never seen an american (or many chinese, for that matter) with the exquisite precision that he demonstrates in his forms. true mastery at the level of body mechanics. his textbooks have become the standard in the hospitals in beijing. he doesn't publicly display his 'higher' abilities, but who knows- you might be able to dig something up if you search. all i can say is that i can vouch for this man's skill. he doesn't advertise himself as being a god like so many others, and, to me, that speaks volumes about his level of internal realization. only in the past few years did he begin teaching the daoist mystical arts. for decades it was his private journey that he didn't talk about much. he still doesn't talk much about what he has seen and what he can do. he's the most skilled AND most genuine practitioner i know. and... um... given the nature of the posts you've been making, i can't help but feel like maybe it's power, and NOT awakening, that you're looking for. what is it that you're really seeking? i'm not looking to judge you; i'm just looking for honesty. i have students who come to me looking for power all the time, and i don't necessarily turn them away. some i do, but not all. in fact, my highest student first came to me claiming that he wanted to awaken, but in a very short time it became clear that he wanted the magical abilities. not because he was a bad person, but because he thought it would validate him in a way that he hadn't experienced in his own life. we talked through it over a period of months, and now he has more ability than he's even explored yet, but it doesn't matter because now he has experienced the radical consciousness, joy, and peace that can't be gained by superficial manifestations of power. it's perfectly okay to want whatever it is you want, but it's important to clear away the illusions that you may associate with those things. if you're sincere, the process is going to transform you anyway, so it doesn't really matter what first motivates you. but self-honesty is of paramount importance. if you truly just want to awaken and nothing more, there are a number of people in this forum who could give you those keys in 2-page email. it's not rocket science. it takes self-discipline and commitment. but it's not complicated at all. i hope this doesn't offend in any way. i'd really like to foster this dialog.

i don't think clyman's skill qualifies for the level of documented abilities you're looking for. if it does, you should just come train with me. i know that sounds snotty (and it is!), but i find him to be extremely unbalanced and ego-maniacal. i watched one of his public talks and (supposed) demonstrations that he gave in his area. he's KNOWN for being a real pompous jerk, and he doesn't hide his high opinion of himself or his contempt for others. so at least you'd be able to see him coming, i guess. to demonstrate his energy ability he took the knuckle of his index finger and dug it into various meridian points of different volunteers to see which points would hurt. different people DID respond to different points, but NO ONE (not even the participants) considered it a demonstration of his energy. i have no doubt that he can manifest it to some degree, but then why resort to such a dubious demo? he does practice some real energy building exercised, but his lack of control, refinement, and especially his lack of high ability is evident to any serious cultivator. after decades of training, he broke a sweat while demonstrating horse stance techniques for like 5 minutes. then he almost bragged about the fact that he was sweating so early, as if it was proof of how much energy he controlled! yeah, i'm not a fan. i've only been seriously committed to cultivation for the past few years, but i would gladly take the pepsi challenge against clyman. if not for his arrogance, he could easily pick up 2 or 3 books and correct most of his errors. he has had some success in treating people. i don't deny that. but that doesn't take high ability. his popularity has more to do with him constantly spouting about how amazing he is than anything he's actually done. in my opinion he could very well have the potential to break through to real attainment, but it won't happen if he never gets over himself. but that's my take.

normally i would take issue with this type of advice, but i find myself in total agreement in this case. you're young, and you seem to be a little too caught up in the fantasy side of cultivation practice. you're trying to take shortcuts when you don't even know what you're playing with yet. if you believe in the power of it all, then you should also believe that certain practices, if done incorrectly (without proper guidance), could cause personal damage that could set your progress back a few years. in my opinion, you're not ready for the macrocosmic orbit. period. at best, it's useless to you right now; at worse, you could end up with dizziness, headaches, digestive problems, and all manner of psychological instability because you haven't done the preparatory cleansing and nourishing work. slow down. first learn to breathe deep, relax, embrace simplicity, and be mindful of the present moment. if you start here, and if you don't rush things, you'll be amazed by the world that begins to reveal itself to you. there's so much for you to explore. don't miss out on the entire world by trying to rush to some superficial goal that seems like everything. the true everything is happening right now. i think one of the best books you could pick up right now is The Healing Promise of Qi by Roger Jahnke. i use it as my standard textbook for all of my students. it's beautifully written, extremely easy to understand, and very thorough with the stages of qi cultivation. you can play around with a lot of stuff in there, and it's all safe. you'll learn TONS about the nature of qi and how to develop it. first learn about qi and discover its flow in yourself and your environment. you may discover that the martial applications aren't even the most exciting. it can be a really fun exploration, so take your time. if you rush, you may never get there.

actually, it's not all that secretive at all. there are tons of books (some better than others) that deal with the subject as well as give training tips. shaolin still practices iron shirt, and they teach it openly. healing tao university offers iron shirt as one of their fundamentals. come to think of it, i'm having trouble thinking of any system with martial roots that doesn't offer some form of iron shirt training. i don't know what fantastic feats you saw in these movies, but iron shirt really isn't all that complicated. the conditioning process is long and can be painful, but there's no real magic to it. you won't be able to stop bullets or anything. you take thousands of blows and condition your body. you pack qi in your limbs and torso to nourish your body. then you take thousands of blows to condition your body. i say that more in jest; it's not quite that simple. but it's not all that complicated or mystical, either. back when i was a fighter, i could take a bat to the ribs with little problem. i wouldn't dream of trying it now. i can still break bricks, but it doesn't take iron shirt training to do that. there were even a couple of parlor tricks i could perform, but they didn't make me special or fulfilled as i thought they would. but what WAS significant was that i was less aware of the subtleties in my body, and i sustained organ damage as a result of stress. let me emphasize: i did NOT sustain damage from any blow. i sustained damage from continued stress, and much of that stress was a result of my training at the time. so it depends on the degree to which you take it.

well said, my friend. and for the most part, i'm actually in agreement with you. the only thing i would quibble with is the notion that dances are for show. it think it would be more accurate to say that dances are for play. i seldom perform for anyone, even when i teach, unless i'm demonstrating a specific technique. i play alone every day, and every night. and it's both healing and uplifting. the forms are designed to be aesthetically powerful- beauty is a healing energy as well. it's not the whole of it, of course. but i find great joy in dancing in the fields. otherwise, for the sake of concision i could replace most forms with 'bringing down the heavens,' horse stance training, simple stretches, and tapping on the various meridian points. and that would be that. i love to play qigong. i love how it feels to dance. life is easier than it seems. embracing this playful sensibility is an integral part of my pathwork. i was actually planning to get master ren's chen taiji video through ymaa at some point. the little bit that i saw looked pretty amazing, and his body mechanics displayed a real mastery of the form (though i can't see more than his implied internal process). so i guess that will be my next purchase. thanks for the suggestion.

for $60 i'll buy it right now. how do you want me to do it? through ebay or directly through paypal? or even some other way. whatevs. send me an email.

hello to all. thought i might introduce myself. i'm a student of nature and the internal arts. been studying for over a decade. been serious for the past 4 years. been really serious for the past 3. i have a real passion for the beauty of qigong, and i enjoy teaching it more than just about anything. well, not as much as my lone retreats into the hills, but still. i've had the pleasure of studying with a few masters here and there, but my training and development has, by and large, been solitary. i'm a quick study, an avid reader, and my ability to manifest qi exceeds many long-time disciples of various masters. although i have a number of committed students, i always tell them that training with me (or anyone else for that matter) is not necessary for reaching their goals in the internal arts. i am not a master, i don't plan on becoming a master, and for that matter, i have found that most of the masters out there today are not masters, either! i am, however, very much a philosopher. and on my best days, you might take me for a madman. and this sorta brings me to why i'm here. i guess it's pretty clear that i have somewhat "subversive" approach to spirituality and internal cultivation. i'm very committed, but i'm beholden to no particular discipline. i'm a wanderer, and that's my preferred way of being. i imagine that there could be many folks like me in this forum, so i thought i might lurk around from time to time and see who's who. i may even drop in on a discussion or two. thanks.

hello, cat. =) the way that i see it, what's subversive about it is that i'm a bum, and so i'm hoping that i'm in good company! but i'll get a little more specific: my cultivation work is highly eclectic. taoist alchemy, tibetan shamanism, non-traditional yoga, spontaneous natural flow qigong, and a number of qigong forms that i practice more for the sheer joy and beauty of the art than anything else. i find that none of them are very different from each other, which makes sense to me considering that they all share a common origin. i listen to my body, and i trust my intuition more than any warnings about the dangers of high-level practices when not supervised by a master. in the past i was not a good listener; just immature and lazy. and in that process i did hurt myself in my search for shortcuts, loopholes, and back doors. but i've come a long way since that time and i believe i understand the necessary core elements of solitary practice. this doesn't prevent me from enjoying the wisdom and company of a skilled master from time to time, but it DOES keep me from being dependent on another individual for my own personal development. too often i find that people get caught up in the lineage game, which most often amounts to petty spiritual materialism. techniques ARE important, but most of the technical differences between schools and lineages are NOT as important as most think. and when there IS a significant difference, i often find that it tends to be the newer innovation (rather than the old original method) that generates the greater benefit. not always, but certainly more often than the herds of "lineage seekers" seem to realize. again, techniques ARE important. but anyone with moderate intelligence can find effective techniques for whatever they may wish to accomplish. whats MOST important (or at least JUST AS important) is the quality that one brings to their practice. and if one's goal is to attain the highest levels, then it's far more important that the individual never ceases to practice than it is for them to find the "right" group. i'll leave it at that for now.