Sahaj Nath

we seem to be at odds more often than aligned on this board, no doubt unnecessarily. my spiritual seeking began at age 9, i think. the deep and serious longing which led to me to eventually spending night after night wandering open fields at the age of 12. i had always wished that i would find some adult out there, just one night, who understood what i was drawn to and could explain it to me. that never happened. now part of my personal mission is to be that guy that i was looking for as a child. and about kunlun: who gives a shit! seriously. you're there for you, and you might get more out of it than all of those 25+ people combined! most of the people there will be wishing that they'd begun their journey as early as you did. i promise you. my only criticism is that i think you're too young to start closing your mind by making absolute claims about what you believe at this point. i don't think that can do anything but hurt your development. but besides that, it should be fairly obvious that i've (for whatever reason) taken a liking to you. i hope to see you evolve and blow right past all of us who might intimidate you right now with our rhetoric. but for that to happen your mind has to remain open. i'm 32, and i still try to do my best not to make absolute claims. always open to reconsider all things.

i'm inclined to agree with mandrake. but to answer your question, "what is black magic?" i think it depends on the context. in many western mystery schools, any art dealing with the esoteric can be termed the 'dark arts.' dark as in 'unknown' or 'secret.' i personally like aleister crowley's definition: that black magick is any magick that's not for the explicit purpose of awakening. any magickal act which doesn't move toward enlightenment further entrenches endarkenment. i think that was his reasoning if i remember correctly. like the trappings of developing abilities. even the cultivation of my healing abilities can be viewed as black magick, and it helps me to keep perspective when i consider it in that light. some tibetan masters actually consider healing work to be evil because they believe it prevents the soul of the afflicted from receiving the purification of the pain and suffering that their past choices have brought them to. obviously i disagree. but it's worth pondering, i think. imagine the curing of disease as a plot to prevent the spiritual evolution of humanity. we never release our baggage because our karmic cycles are never allowed to balance themselves. we could be set back many lifetimes.

so THERE you are, Cameron! =) it's nice to see your face. maybe i'll post a pic of myself at some point. probably not until i meet some bums in person, though.

you're splitting hairs, in my opinion. of course the state is eternally present. no one argues that. i certainly don't. but at this very moment i understand that i'm not conscious of it. i think it's implied in the term "awakening" that the truth you awaken to was already there. but if you don't like the word, fine. we can call it something else. i don't know. it just seems to me like you're arguing semantics. or you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. if you're making a serious point, i'm still waiting for you to explain it.

this statement, at least to me, seems to contradict your signature quote on the bottom of your posts. there is no you or me in this state there is only a flame without smoke maybe you can explain what it is about this quote that speaks to you. i don't know what j. krishnamurti calls it, but i think he's talking about that word which doesn't exist.

i don't know how common this is, but i've never had a nocturnal emission. even when first going through puberty, no highly erotic dreams which led to ejaculation. perhaps it's still a matter of mindset, even when asleep. if you're just suppressing your urge, then it would make sense that it will try to express itself when the conscious mind is not standing guard. however, if you've worked sufficiently to the point where you've actually refined/redirected your sexual desire into greater spiritual aspiration or what have you, then you're not fighting against your body's nature; you're just expressing that nature in a different, possibly more advantageous manner.

wow, i think this is a great question, and i hope others will respond! i think it relates to getting hung up on various lineages as well! i commented a little on this in my very first post in the lobby. people believing that older is better. somehow it's more authentic if it's precisely what was practiced 2,000 years ago. humanity has changed and shifted considerably since ancient times. there is much we can learn from those who came before us, but our lives are the manifestation of the living force here and now, and i think it's a mistake to undervalue our current relation to the here and now in favor of some idea of "old, and, therefore, more authentic." i love my old philosophy books. i consider chuang tzu and nietzsche to be two of my best friends. but my 'here and now' connection to the everything is what i trust most of all. i don't know if this is exactly what you were getting at, but that's my $0.02.

if i might chime in on this one: i think he's saying "orgasm without ejaculation" as a term of art, as in to say "no orgasms, and no *non-ejaculatory* orgasms, either." that's the way i read it. no depleting jing or shen.

i don't know, mantra. i think maybe it's a good process to go through as you come in touch with profound aspects of yourself that you never knew existed. the ego fears its annihilation. it fears being diminished. it fears losing its illusion of control. coming to terms with that is part of the cleansing process, i think. i've had a number of students over the years who at one point or another got a little scared about the energy running through them. up until the transmission most of what they'd known had been beliefs and theories. but once they could feel it running through their veins they feared that maybe it was some entity of sorts, and it scared them that they couldn't just turn it off or take it out of their bodies. a number of mystery schools use this in their initiation processes to activate and cleanse various subtle levels of being, all the while the initiate is questioning whether or not they have sold their soul. in the end they must find for themselves the courage to persevere and eventually realize that what they once feared is who they are. but i think the process of having fear and then overcoming it is a valuable one. Exactly! overcoming ones own fear is an integral part of discovering ones own truths and fighting ones own demons. this post is for the most part what i was talking about.

i agree completely that what you said is sound advice for EVERYONE. but do you believe that's all it takes for a high-level cultivator? i mean, you can't exactly schedule when your next cleansing cycle is going to take place, nor can you decide beforehand its duration. i guess one could progress very slowly, very gradually, and maybe later down the line reach a crossroads where they either give up the world or accept mediocrity. but let us assume that this crossroads is here now. is it/can it be practical for someone to be ensconced in the matrix of materialism and cultural hypnosis, yet strive for radical awakening?

ai wei, i wish you were here in the states. i'd love to come study with you. some day, maybe.

i really was hoping to meet you. but your decision is perfectly understandable. unless requested to do otherwise, i will definitely offer my experiences to the forum.

okay, i finally got around to registering for the workshop today. i still have no idea where i'm going to stay. so if there's anyone in the area i might be able to crash with, i'd be more than happy to buy food for all of us. i'm a good and easygoing house guest. i promise! i'm really looking forward to meeting those of you who will be there.

i really like this thread. i have a very, very strong affinity for the weather patterns. clear, hot, summer days tend to energize my ren and du channels (the microcosmic circuit), whereas inclement weather tends to stimulate my center line (thrusting vessel). being that i seem to be naturally predisposed to introversion, i find times of overcast and/or inclement weather to be more energizing. i think that times of energetic introversion are when we are able to truly activate both the third eye AND the true dantien. well, i think it's true for me, anyway. having said that, i think that thunderstorms can be dangerous to cultivators. we attract and accumulate more energy than the average person, and that can prove to be a liability during a thunderstorm. i think the original imagery of the fire serpent/dragon was derived from bolts of lightning. i think that resistance in our bodies is what makes the thunder current dangerous to us. i think there have been masters who could invoke the dragon without injury to themselves and achieve instant illumination. i think it's an ancient shamanic practice. and i think this is what chunyi lin was hinting at in his book when he talked about letting a 120-volt charge pass through his body without injury as a part of his test for mastery from his shaolin teacher. not that he was in a thunderstorm, but that he's aware of this type of practice. ...and just to get on a soapbox for a quick minute: i think some people in this forum have severely underestimated chunyi lin's wisdom and attainment. the simplicity with which he offers it should not overshadow the subtleties in his teachings. okay, i'm done.

a part of me feels conflicted about responding to this because i have felt misunderstood (or worse) in a number of previous posts, but i've come to really enjoy this forum over the time i've been here, and i think maybe i should be doing more just to contribute to the diversity of voices. so here goes. if i might draw an analogy from this question: this is like asking, "why do you call it Mathematical data and Historical data when data is just data?" the way i see, if i might draw on a little biblical wisdom: we learn in part; therefore, we are taught in part. if any of us had the integrated awareness to truly realize that energy is energy, i'm willing to bet that such a person wouldn't be on this forum, except maybe to promote a lecture/workshop or two. where we are, NONE OF IT is JUST energy. in the phenomenal world, microwaves don't do what music does. or a closer analogy, power lines don't do what healers do. there's energy healing, there's energy pollution, and there's any number of variants both in between and beyond. but a highly elevated consciousness can perhaps integrate all of it as strands of the same cloth. i'm not there. few people are, which is why i'm grateful for the masters who step forward to offer us more "parts." mostly just fingers pointing to the heavens, perhaps. but such important instructions, just the same.

sean, anybody, i have lost/forgotten my password, and so i can't log into the forum with my new computer. i did the whole password recovery thing, but the system (for whatever reason) doesn't recognize my screen name. so most of the time when i'm on the forum i'm visiting as an anonymous user. i don't want to open a second account. i like this one. there is glitch of some sort in the recovery system, but i'm wonder maybe if sean (or whoever) could just send my account info to my email address. thanx.

i will be there. and i would definitely like to meet up with some bums. and cameron, thank you for going and sharing some of your experience.

YOU ARE TREADING SOME DANGEROUS GROUND AND MUST TURN BACK NOW OR SUFFER IN THE NEAR FUTURE. just kidding. it's really the high level practices that need instruction, not the kind of thing that you're doing. IMO too many instructors and "masters" exaggerate the importance of direct instruction at all levels. listen to your body. no one else can be an expert on you. you could get a lot more out of your practice by getting some solid foundational training, but you're in little danger of actually hurting yourself. direct manipulation of the energy vessels of the body would be another story. there are a lot of nei gung practices that can be dangerous without a skilled teacher, but that's not what you're doing. enjoy your practice. listen to your body. listen WITH your body.

a few things: what are your goals? it's hard to give you a legitimate answer without knowing that. i always took it as a given that one must always have the time and energy to be "taken." path working is not a vacation, and neither is enlightenment, assuming one realizes it. one of the lessons in letting go of one's attachments is being able to abandon ANYTHING at a moment's notice, as soon as one realizes that it no longer serves them. there is much that you could learn from either teacher, but if your hope is to look for someone you can follow so you can just relax and glide through their framework, i'd say that you've got some re-thinking to do. you and only you are responsible for your development. no one else can be an expert on you. it's good to get rooted in a discipline, but so many people forget that the internal arts are, first and foremost, AN ART. i've learned a lot from chia. i've read well over a hundred books related to internal cultivation and spiritual development, so i never go into an author's work with the illusion that they will possess all that i'll ever need to know. i do that work myself. but with the foundation that i have painstakingly established (not really that "painstaking" at all, given that my life is thoroughly devoted to the internal arts), i have acquired many valuable insights from chia. i would and could NEVER follow his system exclusively, but then i don't think i would ever follow anyone's. you're right about clyman. there's no ambiguity about his inflated ego and delusions of grandeur. in my opinion he is marketing his own sense of greatness through gimmicks (emotional liposuction?), not so much leading people to realize their highest potential. however, that's not to say that you couldn't learn something of value from him. i personally think his 'forceful' approach to cultivation is dangerous, and that he and his students are actually quite lucky that he DOESN'T have a lot of skill. but it depends again on your goals as well as how far along you are in your growth and maturing process. i actually have a student/friend in the chicago area that i could maybe put you in touch with. he's talented and has enough skill to demonstrate his ability with qi. i'm willing to bet that he can manifest as much, if not more qi flow than clyman can, but that's not what he's about. he doesn't teach at present, but he could prove to be a good friend with whom you could work out some of your concerns and explore some of your interests. i would need to know about you,your goals, your history, your age, and that kind of thing, but i'm willing to bet that you would benefit from meeting with him. if interested, send me a private message. we'll talk.

what can i say? i really love the beauty of the dance! list the 3 most beautiful forms that you know. feel free to list more if you know a lot of truly beautiful forms. here's my top 5, in order: 1.) wild goose I- 64 moves 2.) wild goose II- 64 moves 3.) yang style taiji quan- 24-short form or long form 4.) zhongxian wu's shamanic tiger qigong- 24 moves and 5.) duan zhi liang's wuji qigong- 18 moves when done well, these forms are phenomenal to me. i'm on the lookout for more beautiful dances, so please share and don't be shy! thankz.

i found GM zhang's website. how long is the form? how many movements? a while ago i saw one of your posts about you learning tiger qigong from him. do you have many of his qigong videos? what do you think of them?

very graceful, beautiful. never seen that particular form before. and i love that he's wearing chucks!

i read my reply later and i realized that it could have come across a bit jerk-ish. my apologies if it did. you should post this in the Articles section. it really is pretty good.

you must mean Richard Bach's Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah. i use to love that book. haven't read it in years. i may have to pick it up now.

you're probably just asking whether i got this advice from yogani or not, to which i could simply say no. but if you're actually interested in how i came upon it, here goes. a not so proud period in my life. over a decade ago i went through some fairly severe kundalini experiences triggered by my encounter with the first qigong master i ever met. (well, triggered moreso by my greed in trying to siphon more of his energy than he was trying to share.) i thought he'd caught on to what i was trying to do and sent a negative burst of energy to teach me a lesson or something. but he called my house later when i was bed-ridden, apologizing for disrespecting my modality (i thought i was hot stuff because i had recently become a "reiki master"), and offering to train me at no charge if i was willing to travel to his place in southern california. i was a little afraid of him after that experience and didn't take him up on his offer, but the next few years had me all over the place energetically. i could honestly write a book about this time period. it was probably a year or so later that i came upon information about kundalini awakening. i ended up in an on-line support group started by el collie (who passed away in 2002- a beautiful woman) and ended up connecting with a man who would become my friend and teacher for the next two years. person after person in the support group had experienced premature awakening from focusing on the crown (and all of them admitted to trying to find a short-cut to enlightenment), and so it became the standard advice to stay away from crown charkra work. of course, the question remained as to what to do once the damage had been done (everyone had an opinion and no one's results were consistent). that's where my (soon-to-be) teacher came in. when i met him in person for the first time, the first thing he did was tell me to raise my tongue and close my eyes for a moment. then he touched me on my brow. my energy immediately began to settle down throughout my body. the relief was incredible. all i could do was giggle like a kid for a little while. he smiled and told me that the 3rd eye was a window that allowed me to gaze into heaven on occasion, and that the only safe way to experience heaven was from behind this window. pretty amazing first encounter. first time in over a year that i actually felt well. but more than that, i felt well-being. he eventually taught me how to do the brow thing, and i use it for my students to either increase their flow or mellow off their energy spikes. long-winded, but that's as close to a 'nutshell' that i can manage.