rene

Life. Want to know how to breathe? Watch how the forest does it. Want to know how to move? Watch a mountain cat stalk its prey. Want to learn patience and timing? Watch an osprey circle a lake for the right moment... Want to know how Tao moves in stillness? Watch the motion of winter.

I guess you have come to your conclusions based on previous discussions here - and that you have no reasonable doubt that you are right. All I can say, with all sincerity, is YAY YOU!! It is a fine thing indeed to be settled on something, without any doubts whatsoever, and I wish you well on your path.

Hi wandelaar (-: Our resident expert Marblehead can speak to what ZZ said about meditation, if he chooses to. LZ said nothing specifically about meditation, i.e...what types would be best, etc - so anything one could possibly learn from the TTC on any kind of meditation specifics - would be of one's own or others' conjecture. Meditation is of great benefit to many! Arguing over it's sources would seem to be counter-productive. warm regards

TTC 70 F/E My words are easy to understand and easy to perform, Yet no man under heaven knows them or practices them.

I've known Stosh for 12 years; you've known him for 10 minutes. Yeah, he can do all that. In amazing ways. LOL

Not answering for Stosh, just my 2 cents here. People often read in to things what they expect to find, or want to find, or need to find for one reason or another - to support their path, marketing an idea, whatever. I've heard one Bum say that Chapter 1 of the TTC proves there is a (christian) God. <-that was the most extreme, but there have been many other 'reverse-engineering' examples, and debates, in here and elsewhere. Here's a wonderful link that shows over a hundred ways that the TTC Ch 1 has been translated. It's pretty easy to see the starting point of the translator in each of them. And easy to understand how ideas can form around the renditions. Likely all good or useful ideas, yes - but not necessarily what Laozi had in mind...especially those with a Confucian, Buddhist or Christian flavor. http://www.bopsecrets.org/gateway/passages/tao-te-ching.htm

Thank you, Harmonious Emptiness, for your time and energy spent on that reply; very much appreciated! I've always wondered what others found in the TTC that suggested LiEhr promoted various martial practices and paths found in other traditions; you're the first who was willing to point to the specific chapters. My take is otherwise - but it is always good to understand what others' perspectives are based on. warmest regards (-:

Here are my teachers; each a master, unequaled in power.

Not "refuted" - just not to the scale (yet) of triggering a second Civil War.

Hi Harmonious Emptiness (-: Would you (or anyone!) kindly point to the chapters in the TTC where Laozi "speaks of ancient sayings and practices" ? Thanks!

Oh, dont be silly. My ways are so different I doubt they'd be of any use to anyone else.

Marblehead - agree. EarlGrey - right. Not only are there constitutional issues, most people - and perhaps most Bums - over the age of 40 grew up with the idea of self-responsibility. Prior to the 70's - there was no widespread entitlement programs. Yes, welfare & socia security existed before then - but it was nowhere near the size and scope it is today. There was no widespread sense of entitlement, like there is now. It was the mindset we grew up with that even having to buy something on credit - other than a mortgage - was a sign of inadequacy. There were always the poor - but we took care of them through our churches and local civic organizations. Today, of course, it is an entirely different landscape. Please know that we are not anti-people, or are uncaring or ungiving. It's primarily a resistance to expanding the size of the government teat - the cradle to grave nanny state other countries have had in place for a very long time - that is something Americans are not comfortable with. The younger Americans, though, who have been raised in the left-leaning public education system through the last 40 years, are more and I would say very receptive to a big government that will meet all their needs - whether they work for their own basic survival and needs, or not. I swore I would stay out of this and similar threads, coming back only to thank ralis for his answer to my earlier question of "What is your solution, ralis". So - along with the above, this post is my thanks to him in advance, should he eventually reply. Stay gentle with each other folks; we're all on the same compassionate side. Peace out. (-:

What would be your solution, ralis?

Try telling that to the IRS auditor when they ask why you're not paying your taxes.

Incredible voice. Rest In Peace, Izzy.

Yeah..good luck with that.

Yes, you are. People who work pay taxes on their income. IF UBI is gov funded - then worker's monies are used for that. IF UBI comes from private sources - worker's (non-UBI) monies pay for increased prices. You still havent said where the money comes from. (Your 'automated' response applies to businesses - who raise prices to cover their costs)

That sounds more like communism than socialism..to me.

I bet it matters to the janitor - and everyone that is NOT on UBI. Or are you proposing that we ALL are paid for doing nothing?

Exactly where do you think the money for UBI is going to come from - if not taxpayers pockets?

It doesn't matter what the 'value' of each person's job is, rate of pay, or anything else. Money earned by both the janitor and the massage therapist will be taxed - and those tax-monies will be given to those who do not work for it.

Again - regardless of the path the money takes (whether by way of taxes, increased fees, higher product prices) - it originates from the people who work for it, and given to the people who dont work for it. An exception to that ^^ would be monies derived from natural resources, oil extraction, etc. Otherwise - it's coming out of MY (and every other worker's) pocket one way or another.

Small thing though - All gov programs are funded through taxes on working people. Costs of private programs are passed to the businesses' consumers and clients..in either higher costs to do business or increased product prices - services and products that are purchased by people who work. Either by them directly, or via their taxes for products provided to the non-working by the govt.

However it's structured, whatever it's called - it's still taking working people's money to give to someone who didn't have to work for it.

I stand corrected. From that link: A basic income is concerned with the distribution of income whereas socialism is a system of organizing the ownership, production and allocation of goods and services. Socialism is defined as an economic system based on social ownership and operation of the means of producing wealth. This is a distinct concept from a basic income, which does not require social ownership of capital assets.