rene

Made a post, needed to edit it. Couldn't. On phone, mobile format, switched to "full site", still no edit ability. Whazzup? Thanks!

Yay, tks Kar3n!

Cant sign out from phone on mountain. Can from pc down below. Can be both signed in and out at same time. Never really sure if I'm here or not. I like that. (-:

^

Perhaps your purpose in life is changing; more gently aligned with the limitation. Best wishes, Orion.

Most excellent choice (-:

Yueya, This thread is a good example of entrenched "either/or" thinking. Your perspective, and post, is the exception. Well met. (-: warm greetings

I'd tell you all about it but words don't work, sorry. couldn't resist warm regards (-:

I like it too, very much. (-:

already, hello The specific 'thinking' I was referring to was an ingrained belief that it's not possible to simultaneously experience the seemingly opposite states of dual and non-dual; that one dwells in either this or that, rather than both, at the same time. warmest regards (-:

"How do you feel chi?" At the atomic level, with every breath. (-:

'Either/or' thinking can be difficult to overcome. Everything is perfect just as it is - and - I wash my dirty dishes. Both - in the same moment. Warmest regards (-:

mindtooloud, hello What a great idea! Having the feel of cool soil under your feet during practice might help recall that along with the distance between city and field - there is also no separation between the dirt and its source. Tao is in the dirt - even 20 floors up. (-: Warm regards

Jetsun, hi, thank you for elaborating on your reasoning, most appreciated. I cant speak for others; to me, your words point to a baser survival instinct found in most species - that can be taken to an unnecessary extreme...examples of which you spoke of. My guess is that the OP did not feel in danger, nor wanted to feel "powerful" over someone - yet there comes a time for all of us when enough is enough and the choice is made to act in a manner outside our individual norm. Does that make us "bad" people? To me, no. Does that mean there is a "deeper shadow side" in all people? I dont know. What I do know is that when one denies (the existance of) or tries to suppress a natural aspect of who we are it might be difficult to enjoy peace. If thinking is a hobby, this would be a fun concept to ponder! I gave up thinking sometime back; my hobbies now are exploring the mountains and soon the slopes. Thanks again for your reply! Warm greetings.

Jetsun, hi, why would you group 'sexual pleasure' in with anger, rage, domination, destroying and humiliating others?

Daeluin, nicely written post. I wish the methodology you embrace, and clearly describe, was more easily workable for those who could greatly benefit from it. My way is of little use to anyone, and I yield to you and others to help the folks who can hear you along their path. Warm greetings!

An old Grandfather said to his grandson, who came to him with anger at a friend who had done him an injustice, "Let me tell you a story. I too, at times, have felt a great hate for those that have taken so much, with no sorrow for what they do. But hate wears you down, and does not hurt your enemy. It is like taking poison and wishing your enemy would die. I have struggled with these feelings many times." He continued, "It is as if there are two wolves inside me. One is good and does no harm. He lives in harmony with all around him, and does not take offense when no offense was intended. He will only fight when it is right to do so, and in the right way. But the other wolf, ah! He is full of anger. The littlest thing will set him into a fit of temper. He fights everyone, all the time, for no reason. He cannot think because his anger and hate are so great. It is helpless anger,for his anger will change nothing. Sometimes, it is hard to live with these two wolves inside me, for both of them try to dominate my spirit." The boy looked intently into his Grandfather's eyes and asked, "Which one wins, Grandfather?" The Grandfather quietly said, "The one I feed."

...and still others might just simply let things go as soon as the moment passes, making room for whatever comes next! Zhuangzi called this "a springtime in every moment" . (Dont faint Marblehead, I just referenced ZZ )

Ohh..that's not an issue - that's a hobby! Especially for those who dance in both places at the same time. . Other than as reflection (if even that, which I doubt), how could there be De outside of the manifest? Edit: There cant. LOL

Our De (efficacy) increases when we are our true selves. When we are both whole and turned inward, our de changes. The closer we get to this, the more virtuous our expressions appear. Yeppers. Same same. (-:

My understanding of De is simpler. De - is the efficacy present when manifest follows its own dao (way). For example. Say a mouse is being chased by a cat. If the mouse tries to act like a wolf - and turn and attack the cat - then it will likely fail and die. But if that mouse follows its own way - and runs fast & hides - it will escape. The mouse's power is sourced in being 'mouse' and it's efficacy (de) increases the more 'mouse' it stays. Our De (efficacy) increases when we are our true selves. I yield to others to decide what 'true self' means - to them.

What matters is that I did this. There was even a moment of awareness that I was about to step from center. I knew what was happening, and I still took that step anyway. I willingly and intentionally stepped from the place of peace to metaphorically slap somebody who is lost in their own suffering upside the head. Today I'm back to watering flowers. *** Two traveling monks reached a river where they met a young woman. Wary of the current, she asked if they could carry her across. One of the monks hesitated, but the other quickly picked her up onto his shoulders, transported her across the water, and put her down on the other bank. She thanked him and departed. As the monks continued on their way, the one was brooding and preoccupied. Unable to hold his silence, he spoke out. "Brother, our spiritual training teaches us to avoid any contact with women, but you picked that one up on your shoulders and carried her!" "Brother," the second monk replied, "I set her down on the other side, while you are still carrying her." (-:

LOL ya think? *************************************************************** Decades ago, wanting more words, Laozi whispered in my ear: What could I show you that you have not already seen? What could I tell you that you have not already heard? What could you learn that you do not already understand? There is no need to be kind, just be yourself. Kindness comes naturally. There is no need to be just. As a whole human, you are already just. Being who you are in your heart, brings everything. You already know these things. They are naturally known, because they are natural. What more could I say that would be of any use? *** LiErh talks, I listen; complete in the silence and the song. (-: Have fun!

Ohhhh I understand about getting caught up, lol, like Pavlov's pup to the bell I am when it comes to some things... like 'both'. As in - they /\ are simultaneously different and one and the same. See?? There I go again. Ding ding!! LOLOL This is very good, btw: "Nothing can be out of sync with Dao; Dao allows any and all possible arisings or else it would not exist. Thus, by arising, it is following Dao... weeds or flowers. When Laozi talks of 'losing Dao', this is really the idea to lose focus on Dao and to follow human impulses rather than the source impulses." Well put.

Hi dawei, nice post! I want to change the last line though, lol, to "One reacts and responds to stimulus in the natural world and the other spontaneously responds while resting in, and recognizing, the source." Whatcha think?