rene

Des, I'm so sorry about your friend (((hugs))) When our actions are sourced through the heart, intentions to help become redundant, extraneous. There is no need to be kind, just be yourself. Kindness comes naturally. Being who you are in your heart, brings everything. We already know these things. They are naturally known, because they are natural. Soup, and being there, sounds about right to me. (-: Best wishes to your friend, and to you.

Interesting thread. I really liked the part about the ethical bananas.

Perhaps this night's prayers will be for protection ~ from those with good intentions; especially the skillful ones, lol. Nice to see you too, Steve (-:

If you want to help others.... Maybe the problem begins with the thinking/belief that one knows what is 'better' for someone else. With each moment a springtime ~ how could I even know what is 'better' for me? LOL Nice to see you again, old friend. (-:

Right. Both. My experience finds that those who focus only on the non-dual are more likely to fall in the 'either/or' trap than those who dont bother with it (non-dual) at all.

Welcome Fate (-: Interesting nick choice for one who explores the Pathless Path! I look forward to hearing your ideas on how the two concepts correlate. Warm regards.

Well Hell! I'll go! LOLOL Must I fear what others fear?? What nonsense!! (-:

My slight variation on your idea: "But from the perspective of when did Mankind seem to begin to start with daoism, it seems as soon as they arise really...and then tried to explain the fire they created...etc. All 'isms' - imho - begin with the attempt to put into a framework for understanding, and expressing, that for which words dont work. But we all keep blathering on, eh? LOL I'm glad we do. (-:

For some, yes. For me, without hesitation, yes. I was born to it and it has served me well.

That could be! I dont fear death yet had not considered that to be a precursor for this... but it does make sense, sure. I wonder what else would need to be in place... to end the either/or thinking of having to choose between preferences or acceptance. Guess I'm still thinking about Stosh's whacked baby seals. LOL Maybe LZs or ZZs next words will shed light on it.(-: p.s...I read the last line of the last chunk as rhetorical, but either way doesn't reflect a blended perspective, imo.

I think it's possible to simultaneously prefer all the experiences of life AND look forward to the long dirt nap... when it comes. Must be possible, lol, since that's what I do. (-:

Could be! I like to think of LZ as a free-spirit playfully and skillfully working the bureaucratic game, lol You know, both. heh.

Or not. Different ways to explain things resonate differently with each person, dwai. I wouldn't know how to begin to think I knew what works, or what was better, for someone else I like that we each have our own way and thank you for sharing yours. (-:

And... he was able to have a small meal without having to swallow hook, line & sinker. Very ZZish. Unless he enjoyed it.

Well Said !!

Stosh, hi, ooops...my words didn't express my meaning... lol no surprise there... may I try again, begininning with yours? To me, feeling joys and sorrows is natural. To deny or suppress emotions is not only unnatural but can be physically debilitating. It is the not clinging to either, rather to experience them fully and let them run their course, is the way of rene. I dont know if it's the way of laozi. To me, it's natural to prefer joy to sorrow! Who wouldn't?? That said, all things change in every moment, yes? Grasping at a fleeting joy, trying to keep it from leaving - rather than living in it fully while it is here - hinders the full experience, imo. In similar manner - letting sorrow cycle out naturally (time is a great leveler), it seems to hang around less... without energy feeding it or focus devoted to its removal or avoidance. Of course, your mileage may vary. (-:

Thanks for starting the thread, Stosh (-: IMO, the concepts of id, ego, superego - are ideas created to form a toolset that can be used to put behaviors etc into manageable categories for exploration/study/whatever. Not sure of the efficacy of overlaying one toolset on another, but it is fun to see how things correlate, eh? I'm not versed enough in Freud's concepts to contribute to this exploration, so all I can offer is my take on LZs ideas on this or that, as I understand them to be. I'm not sure LZ's sage is an "irrational emotion driven" one; rather perhaps one who does not deny what is natural and does not cling to joy and sorrow. What comes, comes - stays as long as it does - and then flows away naturally, of it's own accord. Well...that's what I do anyway. LOLOL Extremes are experienced but they dont last long. S'cuse if that was too far off-topic.

Perhaps, yet I dont see the two methods as being mutually exclusive. (-:

And while ChuangTzu was reciting... LaoTzu composed DDJ Ch5 and began Ch23...

/\ 10+

Thats your own either/or thinking, Stosh. It's possible to not know what happens next or why AND care about things; trust the teat of Tao AND not abandon the manifest. Now quit interrupting other peoples' threads ya silly man and start your own - or let it go.

As you wish. (-:

LOL Stosh (nice to see you, btw). I can see how your perspective might come to a 'she ran away' conclusion, sure. It might be, however, that she chose to not engage MH in his ZZ/LZ dialogue thread - for this tangental conversation. Now... if you'd like to make a seperate topic on whether or not this LZ thought is like the llined up baby harp seals, I invite you to bring it. (-:

Ah, okay. We are talking about two different things. Nevah mind. (-: