rene

does not crave such things. It is time to return to floating in the dao.

Mudryah - nice thread! The opinion of Louis Komjathy 康思奇, Ph.D., seems to line up with other scholastic opinions regarding these matters, and it's nice to see the ideas presented here in TTB. Regarding this: Yes, and those who do not consider 道 to be sacred, should at minimum understand the history of the term and those who do. IMO, of course. warm regards

Last i heard, yes, that was promised to the original rebel group, but it has yet to materialize. Because it never happened, the AQ and Hezbollah factions, armed and supported by others, have now outpaced the initial fighters. <---of course that all may be just propaganda. Who knows what's real anymore.

idquest - agree, good for obama, for now...but its sure a toss of the dice, imo. If congress votes yes - we attack, he's covered politically. If congress votes no - does he go ahead anyway? if yes and it works (it wont) then he's good. if yes and it fails (it will) he's hurt. To me, that's interesting political side issues. What he's done, in this "I've made two decisions" speech - is blow what little credibility the office of the president has left. After blinking weakening obama... will the next pres try to swing the pendulum back by being "a new marshal in town" ? Either way, his party has problems. I've got this wac-a-mole image, with potus popping up out of the barrel he crawled into himself... and his crew up for election next year wondering if they should swing now or not. ^^some of that might not make sense to some folks. please ignore the colloquial slang, with my apologies. nothing I say is of any use; it just kinda helps saying it.

Which makes it amazing when they expose their own lies.

or a war.

I hope it does, TS, truly. And I hope Obama is pinning his thinking on more than just a limited strike of a few airfields, etc. And yet, this raises another question. What happens, what does the west do, if the strike is successful, and assad never again uses chemical weapons, but continues to slaughter 10's of thousands of his people using other means. How do we still stay out of it? Isn't that like saying...sure, go ahead you murderous turd - keep killing - but just don't use that gassy stuff. **** ps to TS and everybody: Feel free to ignore any of my questions posted in my replies. I'm just tossing thoughts out here, and I'm not trying to drag anyone into a drawn out conversation.

That's the problem. The strike that obama has planned wont disable him from using chemical weapons. The CW's are being intentionally excluded as targets for the strike; they'll be left intact and ready to go for assad's next round. I appreciate your words on this, and share in your hopes.

HEY MPG - please put the name of who you are talking/replying to at the top of your post. Some of us old folks (me) gets confused. Thanks! edit - like just now. I didn't see the quote from TS in your post. sigh...sorry

Right, right. The only connection I meant to make was past hesitations influencing today's timings - nothing more specific than that intended. Sorry I was so unclear. How does one stop? It's so ingrained now....both the west's providing and the other's receiving. There was a report on CNN? recently from inside one of the refugee camps just over the border..and they showed a 10-yr old Syrian girl saying through the translator "Where is Obama? We need help now!. We will grow up saying Obama refused to help us." I'm like..aw.. you gotta be kidding. Now there's a sense of entitlement?? The US is supposed to provide everything to everybody?? This is a hard pattern to break -but it will break, and it will be a complete break - because just in case nobody's noticed, the backs of the US taxpayers are just about broken.

There's an old sentiment from back in the cold war days, 'Nuke em' all, let God sort them out.' Folks thought those times were dangerous. Every generation thinks their times are dangerous. With the dependance, now, on frail computerized methodology, and the technology to defeat it dispersed globally, traditional war craft is only part of what is dangerous. I hope you're wrong, MPG. I truly do.

no, sorry, i meant the brits hesitation re doing something about hitler in early days. doing "what" exactly, I dont know... but it feels like a similar kind of "what" now, with assad. agree re no enthusiasm; little sign of that over here, either.

Pres doesn't have the authority unless threat to US is imminent. What those terms mean specifically vary - but that he's delayed launch for two weeks seeking approval - neutralizes the legal "imminent" argument, regardless of terms. You're right re extended action funding. Agree re mistake, I think whatever is chosen to do or not do will be a mistake.

Can you even create/imagine what a good decision might be? I cant, and that's whats got me tossed in this. All outcomes are horrid, imo. Even the cleanest (assad assassination) would leave the region shattered. This one will be hard to watch, from anywhere.

I wonder if their initial delays re ww2 (hitler) factor into this at all for them now. I know the wmd issue is playing into it over here.

MPG - would you please also post that vid in the (new in Off-topic) Syria thread?

I'm starting a thread on Syria in the Pit. Did you just see Obama's speech? Edit: Well, I guess we can't start threads there; thought that was changed. Off-topic it is.

BKA - Thank you for leaving it to bubbles to handle. If you had not ignored them, likely the posts would have ended up in three separate threads, in six forums, and just confused the hell out of everybody. In other words: status quo. ********** EDIT: bubbles - thank you very much for not only the splitting but for the locking of both sections. The choices you made also allowed the older part of the thread to drop back down and may it forever stay there, resting in peace. Your extra effort is appreciated more than I can express. Warmest regards. ****************** First - apologies to which ever of you was on duty when my barrage of reports came flying in. I know you've had your hands full lately (NAJA) and my stuff is piddly compared to that. Thanks to viator for locking the thread until you folks can review it. I'll not take up much of your time pleading my case. I'll only state that two years ago - this thread was derailed (without mods around who cared about anything outside their own sphere) and the ideas to be presented were smothered. Finally, I just gave up. When Marblehead and Harmonious Emptiness started a topic two days ago on De=Virtue - I thought I was doing a favor to them by bumping up this old thread so they could review their previous writings. Big mistake. Marblehead wanted to start the thread up...and that is the last thing I wanted. My post #123 tells that story better. I know it would be asking way to much to go back through the whole thread and remove all the derailing posts. And, there's no need for it, or to even hide the recent off-topic posts. I doubt there could be a calm discussion in there now (based on the PMs I've received from Harmonious Emptiness since the thread was locked) and it would be a constant fight that I have no interest in. Nor do I really want to see the purpose of the thread derailed and trashed, yet again. As the original creator of the thread, I'm asking that "Laozi's De" remain locked, as it is, and be allowed to float back down to the bottom of the lists where, as it is, it absolutely belongs. Thank you. ****************************

@ralis - i'm not sure if elected officials like senators etc get diplomatic immunity while in other countries. Maybe Assange should instead press to be named "ambassador" or some such. Agree re charges.

Jetsun, agree, and if that were all that was behind it, right. The Assange article just above details more motivations, which I dont doubt. From that article: "The prospect of regime change in Damascus has long appealed to the US. For the Americans to be able to assert effective influence over Syria would serve US geopolitical interests in at least three ways. It would push back the last extended limb of Russian hard power and cement US victory in its long-term cold-war project to isolate Russian influence globally. It would strengthen Israel's hand by removing one of Hezbollah's main sources of support in Lebanon. And it would complete the encirclement of Iran, whose Shiite Islamist government US hawks have long been looking to overthrow."

Thanks for posting that, FT. Great article. I'd vote for Assange, lol Wonder how that would affect his current dwelling situation?

They say a picture can speak a thousand words. LZ's picture says little and tells everything. (-: ZZ's video is too distracting, overly complex, extraneous, encumbered and misguiding. It's a wonder anyone could even find their own nose after being led around that way. And yes, I am also now seeing the differences in their points of view. Thanks for your insights on these things, dawei, most appreciated. warm regards edit to add: MH & all, it's disingenuous for me to continue to contribute anti-ZZ sentiment in this study, while at the same time disliking the same thing in the LZ threads. Apologies for doing so, and best wishes on your continued explorations.

That sounds like "Both" to me. LOL [maybe there is something to this Zz thing after all..hmm...]

"It closes with references to 'rectify the world' and occupying oneself with the world; The point is there is nothing to rectify nor occupy..." Ah, okay. got it. So...then stosh is right in that 'compassion' isn't part of Zz (so far anyway). In your opinion, has 'compassion' been read into Zz by others to the extent it has been in Lz ? Thanks, fighter-fish

Absolutely! Including this one.