rene

3bob, hi The Laozi has been translated/interpreted/rendered in many ways by many people - including those who, in their own minds, believe "Tao" to be something that can be "followed" or "gone against". My take, is that it is not possible to 'follow' or to 'go against' Tao... as there is no where i could go that Tao is not, and no direction I could move in that Tao is not also moving in. There are lots of ways I can follow, or go against, the flow of energy or the flow of the manifest - like fighting to swim upstream - but Tao is also in my efforts, just as it's in the efforts of salmon who jump. "...For to be over-developed is to hasten decay, And this is against Tao, And what is against Tao will soon cease to be." Decay is also part of Tao, ceasing to be is also part of Tao - except for those who wish it were otherwise. Every action and non-action is one of simultaneous creation and destruction. Such is the Way. Or so it seems to me. warm regards

For me, having (whatever it is or isn't) (do or not do whatever it does or doesn't) without favoritism - keeps all this as a level playing field; in the sense that I do not have the extra layer of trying to figure out a 'side' to be on. (God is on our side! <-- battlecry) Did that convoluted reply make sense? I cant tell.

odd name for a bird birds can fly for they are not tethered down by names

did you know they bite? looking for moisture and salt specie survival

Uroboros - on second thought, you are right - and this is not off-topic at all. Part of Marblehead's "Concepts" project was to also (unlike this exercise 2 yrs ago) include how we use the concepts in our daily life. Last time - it was more an exploration of the Chapters themselves, with all of the "this means this in Chinese" debates, which were fine back then. But this time, I think, he's hoping to also explore the applications of the concepts - in today's world - which we just kinda did. Of course, if I am mistaken about his idea for this project - Marblehead can correct me and I welcome him to do so. (-:

yet move as ever moon, softly whispers its name floating in the dao

I think it's okay to prefer this over that; I'd rather have happy than sad, but maybe when we cling so hard to our choice that we cant also see from the other perspective... is when the pitfall comes. But that's just my idea, and we're going off-topic again. Sorry, MH.

You are right, it does not, and to me that is the greatest gift of all.

now eighty-four, still brave will we still be love'd when we smile and eat flowers?

Your words ring of Laozi. Considering from only one perspective: choosing small over large, or large over small; manifestations over essence, or essence over manifestations gives only one-half of the all... Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. Ever desiring, one can see the manifestations. ~ ddj1 *** In the Mushroom in the Morning story... Zz's actors take the lower position, that of manifest, and chide the higher position, or essence. This might be a poke at the spiritually highfalutin of the day, or it might be the first introduction of actors/theme that will appear throughout. My guess is the later, but since I've not read Zz in a long time and remember little of it, time will have to tell. (-:

That is amazing, Michael. Thanks for showing us. You ready to go?

That seems to be the case when 'forgiveness' is undertaken as well. (-: It is! Similar to everything that's in the heart, when every breath is one of gratitude. Thanks for your reply.

Excellent! Next time you do, kindly feel free to include me in your Tonglen thoughts.

She has signed her will I ponder Apech's idea.. Choose to help, instead. (no worries. i look after my 87yr0ld mom)

From the link - "In the practice, one visualizes taking onto oneself the suffering of others on the in-breath, and on the out-breath giving happiness and success to all sentient beings.[3][4] As such it is a training in altruism.[3][5]"" *** Ah, I see. So...Steve including the lamas that know alwayson in his Tonglen practice don't feel they need 'saved', just relieved of 'suffering'. Yes, that is a lesser degree. Gotcha. Thanks! (-:

That's what I thought, too. All kinds of concepts cross cultures/religions... some more intensely than others. As I'm not totally familiar with 'tonglen practice' , I was curious if that action rose to a similar level.

Agree. Enough confusion can come without adding more. (-: p.s..check your PM's

Does that mean the same thing as "I will pray for Jesus to come to you, heathen" ?

Steve, glad you are here to provide some background. (-:

end oneness with mom will come soon enough i fear.. I help her to stand.

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