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Take all the time you need! Good starts make good ends more likely. (-:

Yes! Marblehead, if you look at everything in what I included in my long quote above - we didn't even get to the ugly tree! LOL. Doing it this way, you could even cut&paste from the link! the section being covered (whether its one paragraph or more) into the first post. This way, it's a small bit of ChuangTzu being looked at deeply...rather than a lot of concepts being covered lightly at a surface level. It would take a long time to get through the whole thing...but who is in a hurry? IF, that is, what you had in mind. If not? However you want to explore this is fine. (-:

Yes, Laozi. "Both" is exactly what it is, imo. Every action, and non-action, every moment of change - is one of equal creation and destruction. Such is the way. (-: Enough off-topic chatter though...before BKA splits up this thread. She's been on a roll lately... lol. Cheers!

That depends on the reader, perhaps. For me, the concise clarity of Li Erh's ideas shines through; other writings only muddle things up. I read somewhere that 'perfection' isn't when there is nothing left to be added; 'perfection' is when there is nothing left to be removed. That's what I felt about it 30 years ago, lol, so we'll see! So it seems. (-: Anything worth learning you already know. But it will be fun to play with this! If the thread is buried by then, I'll find it and bump it up when the time is right. Seeya!

Hi Uroboros (-: Maybe not any more so than just looking around does. I look forward to re-reading it over this next week... it's been 30 years since I last skimmed through it. Wonder if it will read any differently, lol. Wanna talk about it later and see if we think SunTzu still knows what's what?

And your point is?

Just to confirm, and sorry I'm so slow on this, what you have just said is that the other thread, the Chapter 1 Concepts thread, was meant to cover all of this: Is that correct? Thanks!

Stosh - I'm lost. Gonna wait till things are sorted.

"Okay. Legge's title for Chapter 2 is "Adjustment of Controversies"." So that's where we're supposed to be at right now in this Chapter 2 Concepts thread?? We sure went through all of 1 - Enjoyment in Untroubled Ease really freakin fast... :wacko:

I guess dealing with things, and seeing the origins of events, while they are still small - wasn't in any of your translations. (-: Thanks for the list, though! warm regards

You know, it would really help if your numbering system on the first post of each chapter even closely resembled the numbering system in the link. Where are you coming up with: Contraries spring from our subjective individuality Chapter 2:2, 2:10 Identity of subjective and objective Chapter 2:3, 2:4 The centre where all distinctions are merged in One Chapter 2:4, 2:5 How to reach this point Chapter 2:6 etc... Are you on this: 2: The mushroom of the morning: Return to a third meal Or this: 2 - Adjustment of Controversies because stosh's post quotes are from this: 2: The mushroom of the morning: Return to a third meal

LOL. I'd rather pay my own way - avoids bigger trouble down the road.

Never been through a toll booth... but I understand your question and my guesses run about 90% to the good.