rene

There's a lot to be said for that. (-: Without being pulled (harvested) in different directions, we've the time to focus on what is really important.

sigh.. CD that's not what i meant... i sent you a pm earlier. Go read it maybe? (sorry for interruption, MH)

Uroboros, hi (-: What I meant is that it seems you've indeed understood the points of the concepts ChuangTzu was trying to convey! I was just trying to slow CD down a little bit. All is well. warm regards

dang it CD settle down and slow down. maybe let a few more folks jump in with their ideas before we start comparing LZ to this. There's a lot to say regarding your most excellent questions...but timing is everything, yes? Keep cool and stay mindful. And Uroboros post is just fine.

Sounds about right. (-:

Before this last re-arranging, one could 'see' everything, but couldn't get into the pit, ppds, or healing circle as they were protected forums. Now, the only thing totally out of view before logging in is Basement and it's Pit. I like the new way, easier to find things, imo.

Yes to both. Unless logged in, 'healing circle' comes back as a 'we couldnt find that', and the whole "Basement" doesn't even show. lol

Agree, with both thoughts. It's what's at the core of each that interest me - and the Bon might be a clue, if not it.

Antares - thanks for that link. That may become my summer read as time allows... has it been well received overall?

G'morning Heath (-: I am not a member of OBOD, but like you I explored it thoroughly. I'm always on the lookout for something within relative reach to participate in that lines up with my own ideas...lol. Of course, the core of this 'same Thing' can be found in all traditions, within their own depths, but alas - the top layers of required interactions isn't my cup of tea. I love to sit in the back of a church to inhale the music and spiritual energy, but would not do well in their 'social functions', if you know what I mean. The Ovate grade appealed to me as well.. yet the more I looked into it, it became clear I was already doing all those things and more - so I let that pass by. Besides, you and I already have a teacher for these things. Which Black Elk book did you order? The one I quoted is good, and the best one to experience his original vision is "Black Elk Speaks, by John G. Neihardt".

ziran is the way creation creates (-:

Does he need to be?

x

Generally, yes, which is why, until that occurs (and because it may not), relying on preponderance is a well established method. (-:

The thing is - you missed the rest of the conversation:

Hope it was worth it for ya.

I take it, then, that you have gotten past your old screaming about the official "Received" TTC is the only one to rely on? And, while we're at it, it might be better, ChiDragon, to not start the 'Laozi is only a legend' debate.

Might be a lot of assumptions, both ways on that. My take shows LZ predates ZZ by a few centuries. Lots of things going on during those times (others here can speak better to this, dawei comes to mind) but as the 'religions' were congealing and competing (post-Laozi), there were lots of 'reasons' for LiEhr to become a myth (or a deity) , to change the name of The Laozi to the Tao Te Ching, and for other "Lao Tan" pretenders to 'appear' in this writing or that (including ZZ), and for no specific references to be made to any text.

Heath, hi, great topic, and thanks for those links. Are you a member of OBOD by chance? I tend to think along the same lines as you re the connections. Sometimes there is a physical meeting of cultures, and sometimes isolate cultures evolve in strikingly similar ways! Here's a footnote excerpt from "The Sacred Pipe, Black Elk's Account of the Seven Rites of the Oglala Sioux". "Wakan-Tanka as Grandfather is the Great Spirit independent of manifestation, unqualified, unlimited, identical to the Christian Godhead, or to the Hindu Brahma-Nirguna. Wakan-Tanka as Father is Great Spirit as related to His manifestation either as Creator, Preserver, or Destroyer, identical to the Christian God, or to the Hindu Brahma-Saguna. .... (and in the next footnote) "As in the distinction made within Wakan-Tanka between Grandfather and Father, so the Earth is considered under two aspects, that of Mother and Grandmother. As Mother, the earth is considered as the producer of all growing things, in act; whereas Grandmother refers to the ground or substance of all growing things - potentiality. This distinction is the same as that made by Christian Scholastics between natura naturans and natura naturata." Do you see the patterns? The seen and unseen? So cool. So druid. So tao. The rituals detailed in that book are very similar to others' rituals also. Fun stuff. (-: warm regards

Another nice post. (-:

Yes, thetaoiseasy really nailed it with this one; something most can relate to. I used to take lots of pictures, but now I like the ones in my memories of the times enjoyed... and am less likely to lose the stick! lol warm regards

Not if Marblehead now gets us back on track... after deciding which way to present for discussion. I think the way Stosh did his last post would be a good method, but MH will pick what works best for him. (-:

Stosh, hi I think that would make a really good format to start each section... a short post of the content... and then what the concepts seem to be. *** hi CD - this is only a test thread, so Marblehead can sort out how he wants to do this. I'm sure you don't judge books by their cover. (-:

hi CD, i dont think you're late, i think you're too early. We both need to hold off on LZ/ZZ comparisons re differences in approach or thought, imo. As each chapter gets going strong as to ZZ concepts..that might be a better time to show differences maybe. Or not. Play it as it comes. (-: