rene

We already think that. What's your idea? (-:

My read on the trends is the same as yours. The financial sector doesn't bother me; that is and was always imaginary (as compared to asset-backed) and at most, imo, only makes the walls of the bubble a tad thinner. The decline in real-asset (manufacturing, etc) is more of a concern, mostly because its not possible (just by its nature) for its growth rate to keep up with the other spiraling aspects. Add to this the increase in reliance on the gov't for everything - and you have the middle class being sucked dry from both ends. Is there a solution? I dont know; I dont think so. If a 're-set' took all the wealth of the 1% and most went to the lower end of the 99% (if there was anything left after paying off US debt) - it might stable things out financially for a while...BUT... it's a complete change of system and it wouldn't be sustainable over time. The middle class MUST survive (somehow) to support both ends of this spectrum. Socialism works great - until you run out of other people's money. (Thatcher said that, i think) All I can do is have my own ducks in a row... and watch. Do you see any solutions?

narveen, ratios and stats and numbers can be arranged and viewed to support any perspective. the way I sort this out - is to look at raw data, rather than debt to gdp, or debt to whatever. the only thing i see with 'exponential growth' - is the public debt. is there another component with this growth pattern? there may be and i've missed it. if everything was changing in the same manner there'd be no problem, imo... but if this were a human body, it would be like the skin increasing in size x10 while the bones and organs only double in size. its the out of proportion aspect with the other components of the system.

Yes, we know.

LOL you old dragon... i'm glad you bumped this up. gave me a chance to see if i still agree with myself. mostly though thanks because i was recently looking for that Blofeld section; forgot i'd put it on a post. (-: warm regards

ralis, yep. fun times ahead.

narveen / marblehead - yes, economic. It's not that we have debt, which is a normal healthy function of any economy, it's that ours is out of whack past the ability to ever deal with... this side of a total reset. Exponential growth, anyone? That chart is an old one. It shows $9 Trillion in 2008. We are now at $17 Trillion in 2013. If it were on the chart - this year's red line Would go up above this post.

That worked -but it came up in italian lolol Here's the link you want in your post: http://www.scribd.com/search-documents?query=Arnold%20J.%20Toynbee%20&language=1 g'nite.

ralis, hi, do you know how any of the other fallen empires compared with U.S. re geographical area? What I'm asking is... others fell because they got too spread out, couldn't support/control, yes? - whereas the US will likely implode under its own weight, etc. Thoughts? Thanks for the links - warm regards p.s.. first link no results, typed in toynbee, got some dude wrote on bob marley. Amazon link worked fine.

That's okay. Jesus never said that Columbia PhD in Ancient History, Richard Carrier existed either.

It's a fun idea to play around with, for sure! What might be more likely is that they all followed the same thing, saw the same source, and 'translated' it as best they could into the nomenclature of their own peoples and times. They didn't teach each other - they all had the same teacher.

Ah okay thanks much!! warmest regards (-:

Marblehead, hi, thanks. Yes I understand about different translations/renditions! Sometimes I can spot which chapters something is related to and sometimes I need to ask for help on that. I dont debate translations. I just like seeing. (-: *pop* *pop* *pop* warm regards

Vmarco, hi May I ask a quick tangental question? This is not a challenge; I'm still learning about the things in this thread. From which chapters in the TTC does this: and this: come? Your help with this is most appreciated. Thanks! warm regards

ion, hi, nice post and I agree. There might be one more name you can add to those two: LaoTzu. The same thing happened downstream from LaoTzu (Taoism), that happened to Jesus (Christianity) and Buddha (Buddhism). warm regards

Folk taoism or not, it sure sounds like same circus, different clowns.

Then may all your wise choices turn out as you wish. (-: warm regards

Hush, CD. (-: Hosh is bringing some good stuff.

In a manner of speaking, yes, and it's about simplicity. In Ritual Cat - the cat was tied up for a simple reason; later scholars created complex reasons for doing so. In The Cucumber Sage - the monks were presented with simplicity (WuMing), and created all kinds of complex ideas to explain his behavior. Simplicity was again showcased in the competition between Confucianism Buddhism and Taoism... shown via (the very simple) Tao as the common source of all three, rather than each's complicated structures and rituals and claims of being the Only True Way. To me, this also relates to Knowledge and Wisdom ---- Knowledge is 'stored information' and Wisdom is knowing what to do with it. Sometimes, the 'wisest' thing we can do is to not make something more complex than it is, by embracing the simplicity inherent in all things. Can you be like the uncarved block? (-: warm regards

He wasn't, and that wasn't the point either, lol. Maybe here's a better tale. Ritual Cat When the spiritual teacher and his disciples began their evening meditation, the cat who lived in the monastery made such noise that it distracted them. So the teacher ordered that the cat be tied up during the evening practice. Years later, when the teacher died, the cat continued to be tied up during the meditation session. And when the cat eventually died, another cat was brought to the monastery and tied up. Centuries later, learned descendants of the spiritual teacher wrote scholarly treatises about the religious significance of tying up a cat for meditation practice. Edit: Here's the link to it and other great stories! Zen Stories

For those who are slave to neither as master - right in Chapter 1 of The Laozi: One The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth. The named is the mother of the ten thousand things. Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations. These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gate to all mystery. *** ion - please accept my apologies. I did not realize you would see my words as a challenge for so much energy to be spent (in your previous post) on trying to convince me of your beliefs. Everything you say is valid within the framework of your path. What reason would I have to try and convince you otherwise? We have different ideas because we have different perspectives. I enjoy learning about others' ways, and finding the common source between them. If you enjoy trying to convince someone that your ideas are the only valid ideas - all I can do is wish you well and bid you adieu. (-: warm regards

maybe marblehead was talking about your inner child. and sree makes all kinds of assumptions

Ooops..you must have missed what he was famous for... "Holding Chin-mang's note before me, I hoped and prayed that this Wu-ming, this "accidental Bodhisattva" might be the yeast my recipe seemed so much in need of." and "Within three years of his arrival, the stories of the "Great Bodhisattva of Han-hsin monastery" had made their way throughout the provinces of China" and " When Wu-ming had come before him, the Emperor said, "Throughout the land you are praised as a Bodhisattva whose mind is like the Great Void itself, yet you have not had a word to offer this assembly." and ".Because of his fame he is greeted and cared for in all quarters with generous kindness; however, those wishing to help him on his journey usually find that they have been helped on their own." and lol oh hell never mind. I guess you either see it or you dont. (-: warm regards