rene

The guide was never lost. You are already there. Towels optional. warm regards

That is an awesome observation, cat! I didn't connect the dots, but it makes sense. Tao is the unformed substance and potency of nature. It refers to the neutral and natural state of our mind, when it can still contain the entire universe without preconception. It is often represented by a circle, like zerO And Tao gives birth to Te, or virtue. So Te is essentially the function and action of the natural mind. It is represented by a straight line, like 1 Tao, O-> Te,1 In this blending of the bimodal process, it might be the nei xin that filters - and neither our 'actions' or our 'thinking & beliefs' need dominate or subordinate - but rather whichever is useful in the moment would naturally surface, with the other still there, non-separate, in full support. warm regards

more words count less hold fast to the center warm greetings (-:

ion - thank you for beautifully describing the difference in our perspectives: To me, what you've described above is an example of classic 'either/or' thinking. My perspective finds that it is not only possible, but very natural, to have and fully embrace - simultaneously - the universal love of compassion and the personal love which brings one joy. The two are not mutually exclusive, and, one might even find that they re-enforce each other. (-: "Either/or" thinking is very hard to overcome...which is why many traditions have extreme difficulty teaching about the unboundaried nature of Tao, reflected in the presence of 'both', - and so teachings fall back on the easier-to-understand ideas of choosing between either 'this' or 'that' which, by default, eliminates (or tries to) half of the natural whole... as in your example, the ego. I like that we each have our own way. Thanks for sharing yours! warm regards

One who knows he is enough - has already 'great'. Best of luck with your book! warm regards

-bump- thought it might go well with the 'Detachment' thread.

hi zerostao - that was kinda my thinking as well. here lately, I've mastered the art of doing very little, slowly. heh time to swim in the mountain streams. (-:

ion, A little bit of your post I agree with, most I do not agree with, but that is natural given our very different ideas about the nature of Tao. Regarding the part I quoted above, for me, Love is like the tea cup (-: to enjoy its beauty and delicacy, to share it in gratitude, to mourn its passing if it passes, and to enjoy when it comes again. To fear love, or to detach from love, just to avoid the pain that may come with it? That is the greatest harm we could ever do to ourselves and, imo, others. As long as I live, I will never understand why some try to eliminate half of who they are; intentionally denying themselves joy. Thank you for your reply, warm greetings

Mal (-: There are three separate issues I have with these quotes. Using Walker's - Re the blue: If there is no such thing as 'other' - not only is there no 'tolerance' there is also no 'goodwill' to extend. Re the red section: What is stated reinforces the classic "either/or" mindset that's usually reflected as: No desires, no attachments, no emotions, etc. I'm reminded of the tale of some ancient master who, while drinking his tea, realized the tea cup was his favorite and so he smashed it quickly!! I guess that was his way of not having 'attachments' and the lesson for the reader was to follow suit. My way would be to enjoy the tea cup, enjoy its beauty and delicacy, use it in gratitude, and when it got broken or ceased to exist - as all things do - to sigh a short sigh of natural loss...and then happily move on to either a new cup or go cup-less for a while! My third issue is with the bolded section. You see, that which has form is equal to that which is without form, Yes, and that which is without form is equal to that which has form. There is simultaneous existence of both the individual and the unboundaried whole. Not "either/or". Because of this, her very existence benefits all things. Her very existence also harms all things. Every action, and non-action, is one of equal creation and destruction. It is not possible to cause no harm; it is not possible to cause no benefit. Such is the way of Tao. The way of this Chapter is to eliminate half of what is natural. All thoughts welcome. warm regards

No - to all questions. I'm not smart enough to know if my preferences for 'the way things should be' would be the better choice for others. I am smart enough to know that I'm not smart enough to know. warm regards

Flolfolil, hi, for me, the 'influence' you speak of is easy to spot in how Ch 1 is handled... Here's a link you might find interesting; 175+ translations of Ch 1. Enjoy! http://www.bopsecrets.org/gateway/passages/tao-te-ching.htm warm regards

WillingToListen, hi Marblehead gave some good suggestions; experiencing whatever comes, then letting it go. This is like surfing: you don't control the wave; you first read it, then you ride it and then you let it go. With this, especially if you have high empathic tendencies, first step is to relax and look at it and determine if what's coming in is yours or someone else's. Next step depends on the situation... mostly though don't forget to breathe through it. warm regards

It might be you got lucky on that call.... warm regards

Here ya go, sweetie (-: Enjoy!

Vmarco, Your judgemental words in this thread are very offensive. Please apologize and consider meditating on your lack of compassion. Thank you.

I've seen all kinds of sayings and "quotes" attributed to Laozi, and they seem to fall into one of three types: 1) direct, 2) inspired by a chapter, and 3) 'aint no way'. LOL The one in the pic below, feels like it may have been 'inspired'...but I can't place which chapter the inspiration might have come from: Any ideas? Thanks!

Hi guys - thanks for replying. Yeah...thats what I was thinking too but wanted to check with you three (-: It's easy to understand why others would want (or need) to attribute something directly to LZ, and it doesn't bug me as long as it follows the general idea, as this one seems to. Thanks again. warm regards

Thank you for your service. (-: I crewed on slicks in '73 & '74 - but never found that to be an exemption from courtesy towards others. warm regards

Marblehead, Thanks for this post and this thread; it was very thoughtful of you and I agree with your words and am grateful. As for the rest of you rude fucks, rather than take the opportunity to express your own words of gratitude for the service and lives lost and efforts of others - you chose to hijack this thread into your own personal soapboxes. There is a time and place for everything and apparantly basic manners are not part of your cultivation practice. Shame, that, and shame on you.

Here's a few methods that served me well in the past, some of which you might be already doing: 1. Always have at least one, preferably more, Mods who are tech savy enough to 1) keep spam-bots at bay; they can reek havoc even while in the 'Validating' stage; 2) shift topics into the appropriate forums and other required tech tasks. 2. If and when you need more Mods, put out the word if you must - but ask members to PM a current Mod if they're interested in helping; saves face/hurt feelings. A better way might be for Mods to PM members who they think might be able to help. Regardless, it will be interesting to see what outcomes thelearner has put in motion this day. 3. When the (my method/master is better) wars start, as long as it stays in one thread, leave them alone to fight it out. If the flames get too hot*, or when the same war evolves into multi-threads, move them ALL into The Pit. [*If it's just one or two members obviously trying to derail a thread by forcing it into The Pit, one public warning then 3-day suspend both of them, and leave the thread where it is.] 4. Never, ever, close or lock a controversial or offensive thread. If the thread/posts are or become overly offensive, but might be still this side of ToS violation, dont try and decide which posts are 'okay' and which ones are not - move the thread to The Pit. Doing this will also help Mods to NOT have to take time deciding or debating between themselves if something is offensive or allowable. Entering The Pit requires members to log in - so somebody cant 'accidently stumble' into The Pit and then complain about an offensive stink. After the thread is in The Pit, if the thread/posts violate the ToS - delete the whole thread, without comment, period. They'll know why it's gone. 5. Toughest-skinned Mod (viator, lol) gets Pit duty. 6. Recall always, we teach people how they can treat us. Good luck!

My soul looks like this: warm regards

Yes...and whether a fixed path/practice limits the beliefs, understandings and experience. warm regards

It might be that that really depends on the parameters of what is under consideration; i.e. the perspective taken - close focus or wide field; and also if what is under consideration is just the outward manifestations or if the unboundaried inner aspects are included in the idea. Nice example of form changing form (-: Just as always within each stage, the concept of 'money' or 'value' remains - so too in each Phase you described Dao remains and, imo, is what facilitates the unboundariedness between the form and its formless aspect. Fun stuff to think about! warm regards

My point wasn't about understanding "why", rather that Dao may fall into a 'why' category moreso than a 'what' or 'how' or 'when' question. And, it might be that an answer about the 'why' of Dao...is reflected in 'tzujan'. (-: warm regards