rene

SMm, hi, nice post (-: What you've described is common to those of us who breathe Tao. IMO, what you've described is not common, among taoism, buddhism, and all the other -isms. That they all have very much to say, and do so frequently, about anything and everything and anyone, and what one should be doing and thinking, is what is common between them. warm regards

Ineffable. warmest regards

I call them 'ideas'.

manitou, hi, kind words, thanks (-: It's a gift for all of us, imo, to engage in these kinds of sharings, heart to heart, and exchange of ideas. I'm grateful when those of other traditions reveal the same ideas at the core of their Ways; especially when they reflect what seems to be common to all as a shared and palpable (if not always understood or explainable!) experience. I like the idea of Tao. Laozi's ideas are the simplest and come the closest to what I've always held and breathed; without the added baggage of doctrine that -isms bring to the mix. Something mysteriously formed, Born before heaven and Earth. In the silence and the void, Standing alone and unchanging, Ever present and in motion. Perhaps it is the mother of ten thousand things. I do not know its name Call it Tao. For lack of a better word, I call it great. Being great, it flows I flows far away. Having gone far, it returns. What a wonderful idea. Works for me. (-: warm regards

Vmarco, hi To clarify, (using two of your earlier examples) - are you saying that Laozi and Buddha did not use their 6 senses to interpret what they realized resulting in those statements? If the senses and their resulting 'ideas' are not in play here, then those two 'pieces of information' (for lack of a better term) from Laozi and Buddha must have just manifested as complete sentences and materialized like the commandments on the stone tablets! Interesting idea. I like that we each have our own Way. (-: warm regards

Vmarco, hi, thanks for your reply (-: If I may ask, all of the statements you posted, are they not all just someone's ideas? Thanks!

Vmarco, hi The idea that there actually IS a Tao, arose from a need for explanations to support experiences, observations and ideas. Please do not misunderstand. I like the idea of Tao, as I perceive it. But I do not kid myself that what I (or anyone else) perceives/realizes about anything, including Tao, might be nothing more than results of our own creative means, i.e., ideas, and rather ingenious ones at that! warm regards

I was only adding to the idea you expressed here: but I can see now there was no reason to bother; apologies for wasting the time and space of the thread. (-:

It is yes. There are all kind of ideas There are ideas about why matter holds its form and ideas about things being an illusion and ideas about things not being an illusion and ideas about what is the nature of tao and ideas about what is the nature of god and an idea that there is a god and an idea that there is a tao. Lots of ideas - even tao is just an idea and some ideas are better than others or so it seems to me (-: warm regards

Hello 3bob, What I mean is - 'tao' is just an idea. Everyone has lots of ideas 'about' tao. I'm saying that 'tao', also, is just an idea.

Returning to TTB today after all winter off-line - I found a 'friend request' from gatito dated back in Feb. After clicking Approve, I went to his profile and now see I'm his only friend...not sure whether to laugh or cry so I'll just grin and hope maybe gatito comes back. I'd like to say hi to him and thank him for wanting to be friends with me. (-:

Even 'tao' is just an idea.

"Don't just put the blame on Google for this..." I don't. I blame Facebook too. Gerard, you're right. This will take a pro.

Apech..yeah... strange only the "Non-Google" browers are getting this, huh.

FYI - when i tried to come in using firefox - i got the warning like others here. I clicked the "why was this blocked" link - and it took me to a nice helpful page by GOOGLE promoting THEIR security systems. When I came in using IE9 while logged into GOOGLE - i got no warning at all...let me in here easy peasy. IMO this stinks of the ever increasing GOOGLE attempt to be the ONLY player out there... BTW - did you know that the TTB pages "redirect" upon opening? When I use firefox, its shields prevent the redirect. Watch, sometimes, the little info at the bottom where it shows all the stuff that loads up...along with the page loading. MOST of it is GOOGLE. GAG. /rant. (also posted this in the general section, attack thread) Best of luck, Sean. warm regards

FYI - when i tried to come in using firefox - i got the warning like others here. I clicked the "why was this blocked" link - and it took me to a nice helpful page by GOOGLE promoting THEIR security systems. When I came in using IE9 while logged into GOOGLE - i got no warning at all...let me in here easy peasy. IMO this stinks of the ever increasing GOOGLE attempt to be the ONLY player out there... BTW - did you know that the TTB pages "redirect" upon opening? When I use firefox, its shields prevent the redirect. Watch, sometimes, the little info at the bottom where it shows all the stuff that loads up...along with the page loading. MOST of it is GOOGLE. GAG. /rant.

Peace to you, Seeker. And heart, and love.

Stosh - that's a really interesting idea. Which do you see as which?

Could be. Ziran is like spiritual naturalness. WuWei is the action of spiritual naturalness. Maybe any difference between them is only found in stillness.

Some of us spoke of it back then, too. Not much more to say; little new, anyway. LOL I thought there might be a relevance (to this discussion) in the date it was written, since you brought it to my attention, and so asked. No harm, no foul. (-: warm regards

Yes, I saw that, and read your links. Maybe I'm misunderstanding why you are posting all your old stuff. Is it because you still agree or hold the same or similar ideas that you used to? Or is it because you've changed your mind but still want us to know what you thought back then? Oh wait...this isn't the seeking approval thread. Never mind. (-: I know what you mean about choices. I recently had to condense my already small pile of stuff into an even smaller portable pile. Books can be replaced; what we choose to keep has already chosen us. warm regards

"Paradox" is a consequence of people wanting control over others. One must create a big secret before the 'Answers!' can be revealed (i.e. Sold). How can I give away what I dont own? The obvious is right there for everyone. Purveyors would disagree. warm regards

Steve, it's only a paradox or contradiction if one is stuck in 'either/or' mindset. Light is both particle and wave at the same time. You are nothing and everything at the same time. Both. warm regards

good morning sleeping dragon (-: "The TTC grew from a very thin pamphlet into volume thicker than telephone directory. That simple thin pamphlet I recalled reading was the best. No interpretations and conjured stories to bury what LaoTzu wrote that can then be copywrited....How many of us read and re read the TTC in all its different versions from the thin to the thick? And read the first couple of sentences, threw them aside and kept digging in the left over bath waters?" I got lucky that my first read was the F/E translation back in 1980 - but it spoiled me. In that one, Laozi's ideas rang out clear; in all the other versions, the mufflers were there from the start. Oh well. lol But your thread is about Tao and God, so here are my ideas. I dont know if the Western concepts of God are consistent enough to compare God with Tao. Some ideas about God are pretty expansive, others have God pretty well characterized and defined. Those with the more expansive concepts might be more likely to find a similarity to Tao; those with the more boundaried ideas, to me, seemed as they were selecting the 'positive' aspects to corral-up for their definitions. Either way fine; to each their own. To me, even under the most expansive God ideas, Tao = God doesn't resonate. Even, as you state, LZ couldn't define Tao... and there are all kinds of definition-ideas about God. I love Blofeld. I miss that book (Taoist Mysteries & Magic, Secret & Sublime) and almost re-ordered it with the other one coming now... What did you think of the last part of Ch 11? Oh I laughed and laughed at that exchange, all that hopping around and searching for what is not lost. :grin: But what you posted was in the last Chapter if I remember right... I think the right idea is there but the last words chosen to make the point missed the mark. The right idea is inside the words I bolded - but that last punch is too easily twisted... as other posts in this thread have proved out. To me, the right idea is one of unboundariedness, of both finite self and infinite self, simultaneously. And that's all laid out in Ch1, DDJ, F/E. Or so it seems to me. (-: warm regards