rene

Ohhhh.. the butterfly dream is in the Inner ones?? My bad.

Yeah.. but he didn't write it. His disciples did a hundred years after he flittered away. 🦋

LiEhr calls it - 無 智 wu wisdom, ie., knowledge of the mystery.

Yes. It's right on topic, LiH Whatever one's belief system is - the more spirit/energy/tao that flows through you, the less any 'attack' could even occur. Picture someone trying to spit against the high pressure flow coming from a fire hose. You dont need to direct, control or be the fast flow of water; just be the hose. . .

Yet, she saw it after you signaled the pain in your eye. Too bad she couldn't see it sneaking up on you.

RC Agree. For at least 2 generations now, kids have been 'bubble-wrapped'. I'm 63. We all used to jump in the back of an open pickup to ride to wherever... now, if your child isn't buckled into the correct car-seat until they're age 8, then you are a horrible parent. I broke my arm once playing outside. Now, kids rarely break a sweat without mom or dad right there with a tissue. Not to mention the 'being raised by their phones' aspect; the 'trials' they face now are so different, and not very healthy, imo. Especially now that they need a 'safe-space'...at the college level?? WTF?? I was a kid when I learned how to deal with a creep. It was those early lessons that taught me how to handle aggressive jerks without needing #MeToo. An entire class of VICTIMS is what we have now - instead of adults, who went through their own trials, and figured things out for themselves. @rideforever Your heart is in the right place; good luck with your efforts, for sure. Is there anything you are doing in real life - or is it your mission to push Bums into action of some kind? Your posts contain much pushing... are we a practice ground for you in some way?

+10. And that^^ is what underlies the phrase: It's all good. Not that everything is heavenly sweetness, but that even the sour is a gift. Sometimes breathing is easy, sometimes breathing is hard. Would you have it any other way? Not me. Laozi agrees: Twenty-nine (F/E) Do you think you can take over the universe and improve it? I do not believe it can be done. The universe is sacred. You cannot improve it. If you try to change it, you will ruin it. If you try to hold it, you will lose it. So sometimes things are ahead and sometimes they are behind; Sometimes breathing is hard, sometimes it comes easily; Sometimes there is strength and sometimes weakness; Sometimes one is up and sometimes down. Therefore the sage avoids extremes, excesses, and complacency.

Aw..you just need to get to Denmark. Any word yet?

Well, aren't you just a bundle of joy.

🦋 .

I play the kantele but not nearly this well

It conveys, yes.

Something for everyone!

Not wandering at all, imo, and that shows a modern application of something found in Ch 8! You know the line...In dwelling, live close to the land ? When I was working with Dr Wang on his translation - his treatment of that line was: In dwelling, best by adapting to the place. Sounds like you've found a way.

LiT - right. And - here's where the difficulty lies between translations. The chapter you quoted by Mair - has almost an "instructional" tone to it, i.e.,....Let them have... They may have ... it feels almost like LZ is giving them permission and/or instructions. Where the Feng/English translation is different... and uses Though they have.... which feels more of an observation of how their ways affect their life. fwiw - imo - the 'internals' of this passage are that simpler (not necessarily un-modern) ways can bring more peaceful times. Much to be said for the elegant simplicity of life. F/E 80 A small country has fewer people. Though there are machines that can work ten to a hundred times faster than man, they are not needed. The people take death seriously and do not travel far. Though they have boats and carriages, no one uses them. Though they have armor and weapons, no one displays them. Men return to the knotting of rope in place of writing. Their food is plain and good, their clothes fine but simple, their homes secure; They are happy in their ways. Though they live within sight of their neighbors, And crowing cocks and barking dogs are heard across the way, Yet they leave each other in peace while they grow old and die. ******** @wandelaar - I understand what you are looking for. It will depend on the translation you pick, if there are any to be found. IMO - any "errors" in the TTC would have arrived from the translator thinking s/he knew what Laozi was intending to say; and if s/he thought LZ was writing an instruction manual. Lot's of folks think the TTC is a how-to-do... instead of a 'how-to-be'.

Awww... I think you don't like my T and t to try and talk about these things. You, me, and even Li Erh use(d) words to try express in ways something others could dwell on. If he'd have asked me - I could have shown him how easy it is to make no sense whatsoever... until it does. I've become lazy. I meet people where they are and engage with language they use - rather than rely on the wordless clarity to convey... but then so do you. "Balance of Dao" indeed. LOL We do what we can, yes? Not everyone swims in the deep end of the pool and what could be better than that!! Thanks for your words.

LiT - when you say "Heaven" - are you referring to Tao or the tao that includes human sentiments?

Yeppers. Folks usually find something that works for them where they are. All good.

Not sure why anyone would 'have to' - but I'm not Taoist, so I'm not familiar with what their mandates are.

Precisely. And that's why I continue to spew about Both, same time... i.e., embracing Tao while living the best tao we can. Why is doing Both so good, imo? Because understanding the way of Tao - helps to mitigate the 'lows' that inevitably come in tao. Without this understanding - Tao becomes nothing more than a neutered and stylized version of a benevolent God.

What a simple and elegant solution you found! Sadly, the clarity of your metaphysical sense is usually lost buried in the mundane world of justifying one's actions, creating systems, and selling products... using 'aligned with tao/following tao' for marketing purposes.

Thanks! Any guesses as to the causes of that ^ (bolded) ? I understand the 'how' of it..wondering more about the 'why' of it - if that makes sense, lol.

rideforever - thanks for your reply. Though you didn't state it specifically - it reflected your idea of the existence of both the dual and the non-dual but, for you, not yet simultaneously. Also, if you would, when you quote me (or anyone) please leave a little in the quote box so we know which post you're replying to. This time it was an easy guess. Thanks again!

Could you speak more that (bolded part)? How widespread do you find it to be? Thanks!

But doesn't that make LaoTzu a Realist, like you? You know it's always possible for the weather to do the 'right thing' and be perfect for tending your garden...but you always have a Plan B, knowing it will probably be sweltering. Laozi's Plan B - was writing this cool little book... knowing the common man as well as he did. If he was an optimist - his Plan B would have been redundant.