rene

Sure, but only if those roots blazingly pierce right through those three clever treasures and settle in the nature of Tao. Can ya tell I'm looking forward to that chapter's discussion? p.s..tks for posting the rest of Wang's rendition, and for the pm re the footnote. I shoulda kept a copy of the book.

And the morning dew corrodes wires of the web. What was - is now

Cheya, our perspectives seem to run parallel. I wonder if others who have been exposed to Liao have a similar take, or if this is a case of confirmation of, or resonance with, what is already sensed. Your putting Liao's translations in the threads is very appreciated; gives much for comparison and thought. warm regards

Indeedy I do thanks to you! The footnote to that line in the Wang rendition reads: The best way to live is to fit into the place, without interrupting or disrupting the place. Otherwise, we should be contending with nature. The same interpretation follows throughout the chapter. Ok, marblehead, your turn. Whatcha think?

Oh jesus. Thanks for that link. Ya know, I can usually see all sides of things and this is no exception but what scares the shit out of me is that even with good intentions (and that's suspect on its own) they must have absolutely no clue as to what doing this will actually do - the far reaching affect that kind of disruption will have on a system that relies on communication to function. Think your bank cards will still work at the stores?? Transaction data travels via internet. Etc, etc. Exponential etc. If it aint time to hunker, it's close.

This always seemed to be a pretty straight forward chapter - but one line in it snagged me when I was involved with Wayne Wang on his work. Wu: In choosing your dwelling, know how to keep to the ground. Feng/English:In dwelling, be close to the land. Henricks: In dwelling, the good thing is the land; Dr. Wang translates this line as: In dwelling, best by adapting to the place. - which would seem to be more useful as not everyone can 'go live in the country' generally speaking. I've wondered since then about that line; if the usual translations are repetitions of convenience - or if Dr Wang took liberties, albeit useful imo, in this line of his rendition. What say you?

dawei and TianShi - thanks for your thoughts on this. Our perspectives are different which is natural and all the more reason I'm grateful that you (and others) share your takes on these things. (-: warmest regards

During Times Of Universal Deceit, Telling The Truth Becomes A Revolutionary Act. -George Orwell

Manitou, I agree and well said. We each begin from a different place but the end result is the same: trusting the inner heart that understands the connection, embraces and resides in it naturally. (-: warm regards

Folks usually find what they seek, whether it's there or not.

TianShi, hello I've been thinking on this for a few days and, thanks to you, I can now see what the departing point is between my perspective and others'. You are speaking of longevity or immortality: the taoist immortality or the christian/other immortal soul/afterlife/etc. I know there are major differences between traditions regarding this concept - but they all seem to boil down to extending one's existence beyond a natural-span life, in some form or another. And I can see how the concepts in Ch 7 can be translated and used like a springboard for those whose beliefs include these things, but for me - as mine do not - the concepts in Ch 7 reflect something very different. My read is that the relationship (described in the first lines) between Heaven and Earth and that which sustains it - is the same relationship that exists (in the later lines) between the Sage and that which sustains him. That which sustains - occurs naturally, at all times and in all things, including ourselves. You described to Dawei in one of your posts: "Heaven and Earth are long living, its a fact. Why? Because there is something that sustains them from within, from another dimension." To me, this 'something' is already there, within us and sustaining us, just as it does for Heaven and Earth. Impartially and in a fullsome manner. It seems anything more that would need to be done would be extraneous baggage designed to fill a hole that doesn't exist. Or so it seems to me. warm regards edit: cleanup

Isn't this the same fella you put up in the translators thread? Nice!

Taomeow - I quite agree. Your idea re the double-helix triple-spiral patterns might be the same method intrinsically (instinctually?) used in oral-teachings by Lakota and other Nations; I say might because there is a specific pattern of repeating within the stories told, but haven't examined it past noticing the natural fit in the hearing. If the pattern exists in the TTC, and if the pattern does underly us in some inherent manner, that could explain why some may be more predisposed towards receptivity or recognition - at different times or different frames of reference. That we each see the TTC in our own way? Maybe the TTC is like a pair of glasses we can each put on to peek at what dwells within. What would come through my lenses wouldn't be seen through yours: even though we've the same frame hanging off our noses. Glad you're peekin in the subforum. warm regards

Fits head like a glove snow boots on two tiny hands Look ma! Dress myself!

Need a wiki leak? Lots of good stuff to come, just dont pierce the condom.

:lol: _/\_

bump - since it came up in the TTC subforum Ch 7 discussion. (-:

Me too, both. And I've not heard of Nine Nights before this; something new to explore! Glad you're here. (-: warm regards Nine Nights edit to add TaoBums link!

fridge in field unplugged tow'ring over rusting stove toilet on its side

Strawdog - apparantly you have some contention with Alfred's choices and methods? Perhaps you have a need to 'win' him over to your way of doing things.

edit to delete MudLotus' response is better (-:

Cheya - thanks for posting that, glad you're jumping in! This: [Laotzu replies] "Just practice until the power of Tao enters your body, then let the power of Tao run the whole mission for you. Don't worry; it will take care of everything in the best way. See, (8-1) the highest good, the power of Tao at work, is just like water..." [here the text moves on into chapter 8.] - seems to point to getting beyond the either/or thinking of the prince who feared he'd have to choose between the sacred and profane. (-: edit typo

The infinite skies, and our ancient ground... How are they so longstanding? They don't exist just by themselves, .... (which means, they don't exist only by themselves) and that's how their growth is sustained. Thus... The Master leaves himself behind, and his person comes forth. Forgets himself, and his nature unfolds. Is it not this loss of only self ... or maybe Is it not this loss of just self for consistancy w/line above by which he's filled? how do you like the way i take liberties with your words!

Maybe part of the trouble is that the word conveys something that does not exist. The words (and concepts) of selfless and selflessness are rooted in either/or thinking. Either "self" or "self-less". How about instead of "self/selfless" the idea of "not only self" is used. You know, both. The earlier lines call for both. I bet you guys can come up with a word.

right - i figured that was already a given. So then, of what need or meaning is the phrase in the last line "capable of perfecting their embodiment" ? With the eternal body inhabiting, isn't the embodiment already 'perfected'? What more would one need?