mat black

This is not meant as a statement for or against anyone's chosen practice, but just a note on the subject of powers - The Heavenly Lord Jade Emporer says that "the power of kindness and compassion is the most vast and great power" - Buddha - "Loving Kindness" - Sri Ramana Maharshi says "the aspirant for knowledge should beware of siddhis. The power of the sages realization is more powerful than all occult powers. What is the highest benefit that can be conferred apon other as we call them? It is happines which is born of peace. Peace can reign only when there is no disturbance by thought." May all have peace.

11. Is it not, rather, ignorance to know all else without knowing oneself, the knower? As soon as one knows the Self, which is the substratum of knowledge and ignorance, knowledge and ignorance perish. As im posting this, im listening to a commentary by Master Xuan Hua who is talking about Buddha Sakyamuni's enlightenment. Apon becomming enlightened, he exclaimed "Strange, strange, strange indeed all beings have the wisdom and virtue of the Tathagata. All can become Buddhas. It is only because of random thinking and attatchments that they cannot certify to this" Random thinking and attatchments create a huge distraction for us, we then identify with the distraction and experience suffering, confusion and forget our authentic Self. And here Sri Ramana says above, "knowing all else without knowing one's self is ignorance"

It's funny Steve, 'coz ive always prefered to focus on the essential core similarities among Advaita, Buddhism, Daoism etc, Most people seem to prefer the oppostite and focus on the differences. And then say 'i am a this or that' based on which superficial aspect of whichever tradition they identify with. The differences are only superficial. If i read Sri Ramana Maharshi, the Heart Sutra, Sozans' Faith Mind, The Diamond Sutra, Chuang Tzu, Lao Tzu...............to me, they are all essentially saying the same thing. Different roads, same destination, it's so simple. These 40 verses by Sr Ramana Maharshi could easily have been spoken by a Buddhist, Taoist, or Zen master. The TRUTH is beyond all classifications. Yep, it leads to the source of every thought, feeling, emotion, experience, whatever. Amazing.

It is a real blessing to read the words of Sri Ramana Maharshi. 10. Ordinary knowledge is always accompanied by ignorance, and ignorance by knowledge; the only true Knowledge is that by which one knows the Self through enquiring whose is the knowledge and ignorance. Knowledege - ignorance, yin - yang, night - day, etc etc, all are dualistic. But when we find the source of both knowledge and ignorance, yin and yang, night and day.................find that which supports and preceeds every duality then that is the only real knowledge. All dualities must be supported by the all encompassing non - dual. The Self. Again, Sri Ramana says realize the Self, and the source of both ignorance and knowledge will be known. Here's another quote from Sri Ramana: Knowledge and ignorance are of the mind. They are born of duality. But the Self is beyond knowledge and ignorance. It is light itself The Self, the light . _/\_

here's an audio link to the heart Dharani of medicine buddha http://www.invibes.net/podpress_trac/web/2...uddhaMantra.mp3 this isn't a meditation technique per se, but listening to it can put you into a meditative state.

Todd, spot on. All of Sri Ramana words are like a curved arrow, pointing straight back to where they came from. Lozen Loz, i think, as Lin says, we use the name of the divine in orer to remove all other thoughts, become still & quiet. In that state, the Ultimate reality might be right on the tip of our nose so to speak. 8. Under whatever name and form one may worship the Absolute Reality, it is only a means for realizing It without name and form. Name -word, form - image. Both are phenomena and therefore still pretty dense. But i think they are used in this dimension (world) as expedients, a representation, reflection, reminder of the subtlty of 'that Reality'. Sounds leading to silence, forms pointing to the formless. Mantras can quieten the mind, images can open the heart so that ultimatelty we may become so sensitive to the source of sounds and forms, that we may 'realize it without name and form' That alone is true realization, wherein one knows oneself in relation to that Reality, attains peace and realizes one's identity with it. Sounds like nirvana, or complete union with Tao. No more individuality, total return to and immersion with the source.

Being attentitive to the knowing that you are, in whatever state you are presently in. Sri Ramana Maharshi uses this analogy: "When the harmonium is being played there is a constant note that is called sruti. Along with that, other notes also come out. If the ear is fixed on this note that is constant, then, while listening to the other notes, that original note cannot be forgotten. Actually, that first note gives strength to all the other notes. So, the principle to understand is that the first note is the adhistana [ substratum ] while the other notes represent worldy activities. During worldy activities , if [ awareness of] the note of the adisthana is continuous , whatever is spoken is then done with the authority of this adhistana note. But an ordinary man does not keep his attention on the first note , the adhistana. He merely listens to the subsequent notes . The jnani keeps his attention on the first note . Sukdev [ a sage of ancient India ] used to keep such attention and maintain his awareness of Brahman. When the attention is fixed properly on the first note , the effect of the other notes will not be felt."

Steve, the way you elaborated on the #6 hits the nail on the head to me. Potent questions, catalytic, and pointers to investigate the senses and realise that the world is tertiary (at least) following the senses, following the mind, following............... Raindrops come in different sizes, yet every raindrop comes from the cloud. Every cloud has different colour, shape, density, yet every cloud comes from the ocean. The common awareness of the raindrop is the ocean, and every raindrop eventually returns to the ocean......................likewise, we find that we are not seperate from the Self

Hey Trillium, a few of us are discussing Sr Ramana Maharshi's 40 verses on reality in the book club, which can be found at the top of the discussion page.

When there is a conflict (eg Tibet - China) for us to choose a side is just a sublte way to involve oneself in the conflict. If I say i'm siding with the victim Tibet, and am opposing the perpetrator, iv'e missed the point. It's sublte, but as soon as we choose a side and become emotional, our understanding quickly becomes muddy. It can help to see that it's not just 'victims' who are suffering, perpetrators also suffer, though it may not appear this way to us. To be hurt, one will not be in peace, to inflict hurt, is also not to be in peace. Outward conflict in any formis only a sign of inner discord. Victim - perpetrator, winner - loser; both sides make up the conflict and hence , both are suffering, caught in karmic afflictions. Maybe the best thing we can do is clear away all that is discordant within ourself first. May all beings be free of the ignorance of whatever it is that causes conflict, and may all see through and be free from karmic afliction - how ever they manifest. And, as Lin said so beautifully: To uphold and be an example of Patience, Compassion and Wisdom. To better our community, assist all people's indiscriminately, and offer our skills compassionately

Maybe the words, the silence, the look in the eyes are all just different methods used in order to create a resonance with that within us which recognises and knows the Self? Sometimes just seeing the glimmer in the Maharshi's eyes ................they are like a pure spotless mirror emenating the radiance of the Self. When we look into those eyes......something withn us is enlivened because it inhenrently knows what it is looking at

Hi Mal & thanks That this reality as we know it is an illusion can really only be understood when we know this truth through our own direct realization. Sri Ramana said, to merely say it's an illusion is only half the truth. So we just gotta keep investigating within where our sense of 'me-ness' arises from. (oh, yeah, let me know if ou're ever comming to Melbourne) Here's my take on it Loz, We wanted sensation because of our desire for them. That's why we have a body. The Self that Ramana refers to has no need of sensations because it is by it's very nature perfect peace. It's up to us to return to that state of realizing this and abiding in it. Until we do, nothing else will ever really satisfy. After all the Self is our authentic nature Steve That which is the substratum of the senses, the substratum of everything. We aren't seperate from this substratum - the Self Maybe that's why he communicated mostly through silence, given that all else is born out of silence? And yet isn't it great that we are using words to commincate our understanding of it to each other accross the world? I hope that by doing this, we can encourage each other to find the Source. The vibe here feels smooth - thanks Loz, Mal & Steve.

Sorry for posting so much on this thread, but here's Sri Ramana explaing how to maintain awareness in the midst of worldly activities: Q: How to maintain the thought that all is Brahman in the midst of worldly activities? Maharshi: When the harmonium is being played there is a constant note that is called sruti. Along with that, other notes also come out. If the ear is fixed on this note that is constant, then, while listening to the other notes, that original note cannot be forgotten. Actually, that first note gives strength to all the other notes. So, the principle to understand is that the first note is the adhistana [ substratum ] while the other notes represent worldy activities. During worldy activities , if [ awareness of] the note of the adisthana is continuous , whatever is spoken is then done with the authority of this adhistana note. But an ordinary man does not keep his attention on the first note , the adhistana. He merely listens to the subsequent notes . The jnani keeps his attention on the first note . Sukdev [ a sage of ancient India ] used to keep such attention and maintain his awareness of Brahman. When the attention is fixed properly on the first note , the effect of the other notes will not be felt. Thanks - mat

This shows the humility of Sri Ramana, his refusal to be treated as 'beter' than others and an example to us i would say: On one of my visits in the 1920s, Bhagavan complained to me, "See, Rangan, till now I have been sitting on the floor. It seems that from now on they will not allow me to sit like that. They are getting a black ebony sofa from Madras. From now on I shall have to sit on it. Why should I not sit on the floor like everyone else? I feel equally happy whether I sit under this tree or on a garbage heap, but these people will not let me do as I please. I am in jail here, only the jailors are not in uniform." Bhagavan used to talk like this on many occasions. He did not at all like the sofa we all made him sit on. Once, in an attempt to convince him, I said, "Bhagavan, you have reached a state higher than all of us. So, to show our devotion, if we make you sit on a higher pedestal, it is quite proper that you sit on it." "I see", he said, obviously not at all convinced. Years later, some devotees tried to make Bhagavan sit on a chair in the dining room and eat his meals off a table. Prior to that, he had sat on the floor like everyone else. I arrived at the ashram from Madras shortly after this new arrangement had been put into operation. When he saw me in the dining room, Bhagavan called out to me, "Do you see, Rangan, what they are doing to me now? They have ordered me to sit in a chair and eat my meal off this table." After making a few enquiries I discovered that this new arrangement had been made because devotees had noticed that Bhagavan was finding it difficult to squat on the floor and get up again. When I found this out, I went up to him and said, "Do you ever ask for anything? You do not want anything. We must therefore look after your comfort." Bhagavan was not convinced. He would rather put up with any difficulty than be given special treatment.

The statement that reality is an illusion is given from the 4th stage of conciousness turiya. I spose we won't understand it 'till we realise it. Just to continue breifly on the role of the senses, here an excerpt from a conversation with Sri Rmana and a questioner: Question by a disciple: "There is more pleasure in dhyana (concentration) than in sensual enjoyments. Yet the mind runs after the sensual enjoyments and does not seek the former. Why is it so?" Sri Ramana Maharshi: "Pleasure or pain are aspects of the mind only. Our essential nature is happiness. But we have forgotten the Self and imagine that the body or the mind is the Self. It is that wrong identity that gives rise to misery. What is to be done? This mental tendency is very ancient and has continued for innumerable past births.Hence it has grown strong. That must go before the essential nature, happiness, asserts itself." ........and in regard to reversing the light: To see objects the reflected light of the mind is necessary. To see the Heart it is enough that the mind is turned towards it. Then mind loses itself and Heart shines forth. The essence of mind is only awareness or consciousness. When the ego, however, dominates it, it functions as the reasoning, thinking or sensing faculty. The cosmic mind, being not limited by the ego, has nothing separate from itself and is therefore only aware. here's the link to the site -very nice http://www.hinduism.co.za/meditati1.htm

Love it Steve! So we need to be patient as Lin always says. We have moved our focus so far from it, that in order to know the eye with a capital E requires practice. And as Lin also says: 'to listen to silence is real listening' Sometimes we feel hungry, tired, energetic, sick, sad, exited.....on & on. We say 'i'm sick' but in order to even say it, there must be an awareness that is seperate from the sickness, otherwise it couldn't be known. The same goes for every experience that we have. Sri Ramana reminds us to be aware of the one who is aware. Sounds paradoxical maybe. But it's only because our focus is so 'outer'. Like Steve said Lozen, it's ok to be confused. Sometimes we can get confused trying to understend Sri Ramana with our usual intellect. And then the more we try, the more confused we get. A bit like trying to lift ourselves off the ground by pulling on our shoelaces haha, the more we try, the harder it gets Don't worry if you feel confused at the moment Loz, the confusion will drop off. The mind always has a different 'theme' at any time - happiness, sadness impatience, etc. - And we all have them every day haha. Just like the sky has clouds, but occaisionally, a glimpse comes there is a clearing and only the clear sky is there. If we remember that every state of the mind comes and goes (like clouds) - nothing is static, we gradually put less emphasise on attatching to our thoughts & feelings - 'good' or 'bad', pleasant or unpleasant. We become more sensitve to observing our mind. Then we can get a knack for being aware of that which is always there within us through everything - just like the clear sky that is always behind the clouds. The glimpses of awareness with 'no thought'.

Yeah? 4. If one has form oneself, the world and God also will appear to have form, but if one is formless, who is it that sees those forms, and how? Without the eye can any object be seen? The seeing Self is the Eye, and that Eye is the Eye of Infinity. Amazing. How wonderful This quote might have been said by any master, Buddist, Chuang Tzu, Zen master.............. Sri Ramana captured the pure essence. Like Steve said earlier, it stirs reminders of the Heart Sutra. "Without the eye can any object be seen?" Or, we can reverse it and can ask, 'without the seer, can the eyes see?' The eyes can only be used for seeing, but they need a seer. So who is it that sees through the eyes? Master Xuan Hua said that Bodhisatvas can see with their ears and hear with their eyes. For them, the senses are interchangeable. I think that for us, in our life, we are almost lived by our senses, while forgeting that intelligence, that awareness that preceeds the senses. Without the eye can any object be seen? If we reverse the globe on a torchlight and redirect the light back onto the torch, we see what gives the light it's source. Likewise, the energy that saw through our eyes if turned back upon itself, remains in itself........can know itself. Thanks for starting this Lozen. Sri Ramana's compasion was boundless. Through these verses, hopefully we might all be inclined to re-cognise the THAT wehich we are essentially, beyond all definitions.

Lozen It is the ultimate question. Buddha says:"We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world". Sri Ramana says that of all the thoughts we have, the "I" thouhgt, the sense of 'me-ness' is the first, the one on which every other thought depends. All our desires, all our suffering, all our pleasures everything come after the I thought. Sri Ramana says: "Ask yourself the question, Who am I? This investigation will lead in the end to the discovery of something within you which is behind the mind. Solve that great problem, and you will solve all other problems thereby. " So we need to find out where this sense of 'me-ness' comes from, where does it arise? It's not intellectual, it's a direct investigation into our self. We know that we exist, no one denies that. So where does this sense of existing come from? The sense of I and the breath have the same source. If we fix our attention on where is the breath comming from. When the breath slows down, we can look.......how does it come and go....... We need to know this.

"Life is short and the time of death is uncertain; so apply yourself to meditation. Avoid doing evil, and acquire merit, to the best of your ability, even at the cost of life itself. In short: Act so that you have no cause to be ashamed of yourselves and hold fast to this rule" Milarepa

This is an audio link to: A melodious chant of The Great Dharani and Heart Mantra of Medicine Buddha in Chinese and Sanskrit. Introduction on Medicine Buddha and benefits of chanting his Dharani and Heart Mantra. http://www.invibes.net/podpress_trac/web/2...uddhaMantra.mp3 Best wishes.

He's east of Melbourne in Deepdene (between Kew and Balwyn) on Burke road.

Yes Ian, that's a good way of puting it - taking away hiding places. When i went to Bob's, listening to him and being open, following the 'pointers' like a zen master of sorts........i was stripped bare. Some people were like.."but if i do that completely, 'i'll ceses to exist, how will i be able to function without all my past references of identity, what will be left?"........ Bob's response was something along the lines of: - when you investigate, drop those atattchments to identity remain mindful and look into where your 'I' comes from, you will not cease to exist and you will still function in the world. The functioning won't be from conditioning, but from the pure untainted intelligence. That intelligence, prior to conditions, thought, judgements, opinions, identity was always there, we just obscured it. It's an experience to feel that you are stripped bare, but really, when aware at the same time, it seems pretty close to freedom.

My guess: If it can be called desire, it is a self-less desire. Very different from the typical self gratification type of desires that we have. Though to a bodhisattva, concepts of self and other are no more, to those still clinging to a notion of self - ego, subsequent sufferings are, due to delusion, real. Having attained wisdom & insight, a bodhisattva chooses to help & save others from their self imposed sufferings. So to a bodhisattva, it is not desire in the sense of 'me wanting for myself', rather it is an act motivated by pure compassion, the most noble of intentions. Namo Guan Shr Yin Pusa.