mat black

Nice xabir2005, very nicely said.

The translations that i am sam listed are great because although I feel they are all saying the same thing essentially, the variations broaden the applications of the verse. So, I'll have another crack at it............ The first two lines of each verse refers to the appearance in superficial, worldy terms as viewed by most people. The sage might seem or appear dark on the surface, but it's only an outward impression viewd by most. Most people, judge and hold to views and opinions and therefore "scrutinize", see differences" that are "clear cut". The sage, being obtuse (round/soft) does not discriminate, does not hold to preferences and hence is accommodating. By being accommodating, he is accommodated by the source itself. I like the term obtuse, it's similar to round, like zero The zero makes no distinctions, no discriminations, may even seem dull, yet all possibilites come from it. In expaning or contracting it remains round. Remaining round it does not contend, by not contending it is always at peace, at one with the Tao. Just a guess anyway

It reminds me of a quote I heard one of Master Huas' disciples say once. He said the Master would remark that "the smart people always seem to pass me by" I take "smart" here as refering to worldy cunning and intellectualising types, ones who use intelligence to obtain easy advantge. Similarly, maybe LaoTzu is saying that he appears muddled to others, but it's because he is a sage and the sage has seen through everything in this world. Remember that video that Hagar posted on the Master at Wudang? That man exeplified it to me. Seemingly simple and maybe even muddled, but underneath radiating bright wisdom. A very good friend once wrote on this forum that the wise person has to sometimes or often play the fool and on the surface appear very ordinary. I spoke to this friend the other day and he had a very genuine laugh that reminded me of a child, but he spoke with great wisdom at the same time.

The typical means of communicating on this forum is through the written word which requires articualtion from the writer and understanding, comprehension from the reader. This is just to understand the information conveyed, even then, there's no guarantee that there will be an actual understanding or agreement of what's being said. Even good intentions aren't always easy to convey at first. Add to that some who just love to argue (particularly in the past 12 months), and that can make this place seem as if there is some magic lost. Isn't it strange that the deeper we look, often the less we have to say? Often I initially want to say something, bu then the more I formualte the words to write, the more I see that what's trying to be said is very difficult to write. So, I'm still finding it difficult to ever post anything that actualy conveys what I'm wanting to say. Maybe that's because it can't be said? I dunno Yes. I feel that occaisionally there are deep understandings gained on this forum which serve the purpose of greater peace and harmony. Some people always add valuable, thoughtful contributions, ones that don't fly off the cuff, but actually have insight/sincerity/clever humour behing them. They're the ones that bring me back to check out this forum.

It was that kind of angle that I was refereing to in the earlier posts, the reason being that those guys can really have a harmful influence on people, and I know some people who have been screwed up from drugs. I used some affirmative language thinking that the discussion was about the harsher stuff. I only realised this morning that you and contrivedname were not talking about that kind of thing. Woops. I feel that same way about what I said, and it's not in my character to be like that. I actually feel reluctant to ever write anyting here as I prefer to keep quite, so if I came accross as abrupt, I feel like real idiot. Whenever I watch any sport event regardless of how spectacular the game is, my favourite part is always at the end when everyone shakes hands and says "thanks for the game" - it's like they've all become friends again. With this forum and written type communication, it's so easy to misunderstand the intent behind what people are saying sometimes. Funny how we now realise we were mostly on the same page the whole time. One thing I always try to do with anyone is clear the air if there has been a misunderstanding (especially when I've screwed up) and keep peace. That to me is the most important thing Thanks for the kind words Bobby. This exchange has reaffirmed my feeling that in essence we all actually want to support each other to find the great peace within our hearts. Wish you all the best mate. Thanks John, but you've done it yourself many times for me too. The sincerity and creativity that you express in your posts is something I always appreciate. **(sorry, I couldn't the quote thing right so I used colour to differentiate the text)

No, I didn't say it's not worth anything that you grew out of hatred etc. That is a wonderful thing. To learn about our errors is great and I honour that.. Just now, I learned that I should have read what you guys were actually talking about. Again, my mistake, I should have looked more closely at what you were saying. Sounds great, congratulations. If we were to actually met in person, I'm sure we'd groove and get along fine. I misunderstood some of the points you guys were making, sorry. Again I wasn't aware of what eactlly you were talking about, I assumed it to be common recreational and illicit drugs. My bad. But, I still feel that the quote by Master Hui Neng was misplaced and out of context. I certainly think it's not a good idea to leave out phrases or words when quoting a master. However, I understand and agree with your point: Agree that the true essence of mind can never be tainted. But I wasn't contradicting myself, because what I meant was that most drug use (which is what I thought you were talking about) does cloud one's capacity to realize the true essence of mind. That's why there are precepts against taking them.

Word for word, this is beautiful.

The above examples can alter ones perception, but not all in the same way. Intoxicants impose a sense of wellbeing on the user usually at the expense of the jing or qi (and the clear bright nature of undefiled shen). Any percieved pleasurable state thus attained is based upon the chemical activity of the substance on the brain/body/mind. It is from an exogenous source, is transient and, pertains to the skandha (usually) of feeling. To think that the sensations experienced through the skandhas (especially those imposed by intoxicants) can be equated with enlightenment is a misunderstanding. Meditation also changes one's perception, by assisting to strip away the layers of habits, ignorance and afflictions from ones mind. What is potentially revealed is one's own inherent wisdom. This inhernt wisdom and peace is not exogenous and not imposed from an ingested substance as is the case with intoxicants. The taking of intoxicants and meditation bare no real comparrison to each other. This statement was not said in regard to drugs. The blank that was left out from the quote was "sutra reciting", not drug taking. Therefore the quote is completely out of context in this discussion. The Master Hui Neng pointed to essence of ones mind. Untainted undefiled.

It doesn't matter how you got there as long as: - there was no deliberate suffering imposed on any being - one was/is honest in cultivation - the learning to and attainment of being "happy, compassionate, loving, free of suffering and judgement, and you are truly at an incredibly grounded inner peace" comes from discovering it in ones own mind as being innate, and it is not imposed from the outside by substances, particularly intoxicants. Any state attained through the intake of intoxicants is only a chemical manipulation causing a fleeting experience of a type of well being. It is entirely conditional upon the substance and hence cannot be of any genuine and lasting benefit to anyone. There are no short cuts to enlightenment, and the use of intoxiacants is simply about as authentic to cultivation as a person wearing a wig and convincing themself that they have grown hair. Superficial at best, and potentionally dellusional.

I don't mind jokes, but what if Trixter was serious? Given that almost everyone respoded with sarcasm, and assuming that you are genuinly remorseful, and that you were asking for advice on what to do to make up for it, I've got a suggestion. This is not intended as a Buddhist or Daoist answer (as some dualistic attitudes may adhere to) rather it is the method that will be of most benefit to the spider. You can say "Namo Guan Shi Yin Pusa"- or "Namo Amitabha Buddha" 7 or more times, really mean it, and dedicate it to the spider.

I'm hesitant to say anything as I'm by no means skilled nor well versed in such matters. That being said, I humbly suggest to recite one or all combination of the following: Sutra of the vows of Ksitigarbha Sutra of the Past vows of Medicine Buddha (also the Dharani various times) Great compassion Heart Dharani Sutra Usnisa Vijaya Dharani *Dedicate the merit of the recitations to the ghost. This is not forcing it away, rather it may assist to free it so to speak. Again, I repeat my disclaimer at the top. All the best

Incidently, the international parliment of world religions is being held in Melbourne Australia dec 2009

>>nods<<

Cessation of lustful thoughts, and no expectation of results is a good place to start. Has anyone ever had any success with so called retention otherwise? Maybe people won't like this, but oh well................aroused jing is almost always tainted with lust and desire. Only clean qi can rise and circulate. So it's necessary to clean the jing and qi first. To do that, we gotta clean our own minds. Meditate meditate meditate. It might take a while as most of us carry the the habit of desire deep in our subconcious. So it's not necessarily easy, therefore patience and sincerity are needed What is commonly referred to as retention happens on it's own the more that desire is reduced and expecations cease. With ya Trunk. Hope it's heeded for saftey's sake.

Wow, great video, so genuine, touches the heart. Sending the master thanks and bows. Respect and gratitude. Thanks Hagar, that really was great.

2 angles on it - sometimes what appears as secret can actually be an instruction or catalyst communicated beyond the five senses. Not secret in the typical sense, rather very subtle and refined & only perceptable to those who are ripe and ready having laid the foundation with much prior cultivation. - secret can also refer to an experience, state or response (for want of a better term/s). It simply cannot be spoken of, cannot be described because it is inconcievable and ineffable, and hence refered to as 'secret'. Also to speak of such things may arouse greed in other people as well.

Gotu kola Centella asiatica is good for the brain in a number of ways. Two leaves per day or as tea or caps. It actualy has a similar shape to the brain.

Sorry, I don't understand the question.

Pleasure mate My take on it is that compassion is found consistently throughout the Buddhist texts because it is so fundamental in order to awaken to the ultimate truth. As the venerable master Hsuan Hua says: "Buddhism talks about kindness and compassion. What is kindness? It means being kind to those with whom one has no affinity. That is, you should be kind and compassionate to people who feel no affinity with you, no matter how they treat you. There's also the great compassion of being one with all. How can we have great compassion? Great compassion is a feeling of pity and sympathy. When we see others suffering, we also suffer. This is known as commiserating with the world's people. We should practice kindness, compassion, joy and giving, because by being kind we can make living beings happy, and by being compassionate, we can sympathise with living beings and alleviate their suffering and afflictions. We should love people as much as we love ourselves." ~Hsuan Hua~ Works on compassion are in Taoist sources as well, though it seems to be less common. Here's some more from Taoist sources that I found. "Who can enjoy enlightenment and remain indifferent to suffering in the world? This is not in keeping with the way. Only those who increase their service along with their understanding can be called men and women of Tao" "When you percive that an act done to another is an act done to yourself, you have understood a great truth." ~Hua Hu Ching~ Extolling the Lotus, verse 2: "Our original pure immaterial seed Is crystal clear throughout all time. Because it dislikes mental and material greed It bides for a time deep in the mud. It always intends to help people out, Ever determined to overcome selfishness. Of the many who try to take it, How many really know what it is?" ~The book of Balanace and Harmony~

This is an important point that only an honest person will tell you: There are so many pre-requisites, and as Marken says, a "deep realisation of emptiness" is necessary. One reason why people who try this practice can have too much residual yang tension is because when they 'retain' they are retaining not only physical substance (jing), but they are retaining the heat of lust and desire with it. The most important thing is to work on quelling lust and desire. Lust and desire is 'hot', it is unrefined and unclean. So if one practiced retention with lust, it is bound to be dangerous. It can really become "re- tension" Venerable Master Hsuan Hua says: "As for one who practices tantra, if he has no sexual desire, it is all right. If he has desire, then he is just the same as a common person.........There must be no thoughts of sexual desire. To do the tantric practices, one must neither be a piece of wood nor have desire. It is really not easy. Because it is so difficult, it is extremely dangerous. But most people like it, and use it to cover up their own "inner conflicts."

HAHAHAHA

From the Scripture in Forty Nine Chapters The Heavenly Lord Shakra, also known as the Jade Emperor says: Chapter 23: Kindness and Compassion The Heavenly Lord said:Kindness and compassion are the true nature of you all living beings. You should always treat all beings with kindness and compassion and should not have the heart to hurt them. You should regard the sufferings of others as if they were happening to yourself, and wish to save and protect the living beings and make them all peaceful and happy. All living beings are trapped in sins and sufferings due to their foolishness and ignorance; however, if you do not save them and pull them out from the sufferings, you are as foolish and ignorant as them. You should always practice with your great compassionate hearts, and then you will achieve the unsurpassed Tao naturally. Chapter 36: The Greatest Power Wonderful Practice Real Person asked the Heavenly Lord: What is the greatest power in the world? The Heavenly Lord said: The power of kindness and compassion is the most vast and great power. The hearts of kindness and compassion can melt all; the practices of kindness and compassion can tame all. Vicious ones cannot compete with it, and atrocious ones cannot fight against it -- wherever it proceeds, it is always invincible. Thus, this power is vast, great, and boundless. Source: http://home.comcast.net/~taoistresource/0018.html

Looks good. I also like the work of Fred Hollows restoring sight to people all over the world. http://www.hollows.org.au/

Drew, I always enjoy reading about your experiences with Master Chunyi Lin. I have a lot of respect for Master Lin. His book "Born a Healer" is a great story about his life experiences. Highly recomended Here's one quote from the book: "I really enjoy my work. When I see people smile and walk out from the classes or my office without pain, no words can describe the joy and happiness in my heart"