mat black

No need to apologise Kate, my respnses are only cautious guesses. As i see it, there's no right or wrong in these discussions, just co-operation and sharing Thank you Mouse, wonderfully put.

Fate, free will, destiny, karma. Some of might be pre-determined, some of it may be within our capacity to alter through changing our ways? I like this story. In a time long past, there was an old monk who, through diligent practice, had attained a certain degree of spiritual penetration. "He had a young novice who was about eight years old. One day the monk looked at the boy's face and saw there that he would die within the next few months. Saddened by this, he told the boy to take a long holiday and go and visit his parents. 'Take your time,' said the monk. 'Don't hurry back.' For he felt the boy should be with his family when he died. Three months later, to his astonishment, the monk saw the boy walking back up the mountain. When he arrived he looked intently at his face and saw that they boy would now live to a ripe old age. 'Tell me everything that happened while you were away,' said the monk. So the boy started to tell of his journey down from the mountain. He told of villages and towns he passed through, of rivers forded and mountains climbed. Then he told how one day he came upon a stream in flood. He noticed, as he tried to pick his way across the flowing stream, that a colony of ants had become trapped on a small island formed by the flooding stream. Moved by compassion for these poor creatures, he took a branch of a tree and laid it across one flow of the stream until it touched the little island. As the ants made their way across, the boy held the branch steady, until he was sure all the ants had escaped to dry land. Then he went on his way. 'So,' thought the old monk to himself, 'that is why the gods have lengthened his days.' Compassionate acts can alter your fate. Conversely, acts of viciousness can adversely affect your fate." This is from the book "Thus I have heard. Buddhist parables and stories" http://www.ymba.org/parable/parabfr3.htm

For all we know, the boy may have been heading toward a very unpleasant future had he not been kind to the ants. Why else would his face have indicated that he was soon going to die at such a young age? In the boys' case, it was apparent that the extended stay allowed him to release and purify some negative karma - indeed that's how it is for all of us. AN early death may have had him reborn in an even less auspicious circumstance. Whether this life is seen as a reward or punishment is determined by the karma we have created in the past, that's why many people have such differnt life circumstances. If our circumstances are unpleasnt, it doesn't help to just opt out, we have to earn liberation. I think Steves' response applies here: If we act in kindness with no thought of personal benefit, that is authentic compassion. The boy was moved to act through concern for the ants' welfare - there was no sign of selfish motive, and yet the amazing thing is that the boy was spared death at a young age, and hence more time to cultivate the way. (and he inadvertantly learned a valuable lesson at the same time) The value of the story is determined by an individual's capacity to be inspired by it to act in ways which accord with harmony, peace and virtue. Sorry if this story did not serve this purpose for you. Like seadog said, do you (or anyone else) have any stories that might inspire compassion? Though it is always up to the individual to choose how to behave and act throughout life, I really like it when we are able to use a forum like this to encourage each other by sharing stories whether personal experience, or ancient tales. Supportiveness can be valuable on the path.

The thing i liked about the article was that it was a reminder to not become attatched to quite settings nor to resist environmental noise, IOW words the world. As it was pointed out that some of the greatest 'noise' is actually generated by us from anger and resistance on our part. I s'pose it's about balance: - allocating times to mediatate when it is quite, This is helpful in returning the hearing to investigate inwards http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...;hl=contemplate - acknowledging tremendous opportunities that 'common' environments can serve on our cultivation. ie learning not to deny the reality of external circumstances, but at the same time not allow ourselves to be moved by them either.

Thanks Seadog. I used to fish, and have hunted when living in the bush. At the time, I was detatched from the reality of the suffering I was inflicting on sentient beings and of the profundity of the act of killing. Now realising that I have inflicted suffering on sentient beings I can no longer catch fish etc. When i harvest vegies from my garden, I imagine that there is minimal suffering for the plant based upon what assume is a low level of sentience on the part of the plant. In the case of the snake, there was more sentience, and hence more suffering. I threw it into the bush behind the property. Kinda crude I know, but...............i didn't know what else to do at the time, hopefully nature re-cycled it's body. I often wonder about this. For example, the other I was walking along, I didn't move my foot away in time, and I stepped on an ant. Some people might think, 'so what', but I bent down and saw this poor thing struggling to walk, I must have broken it's leg or something. It appeard to be really suffering. I recited the six syllable mantra asking for the ant to be OK. Ants, humans, snakes............we all have the potential to feel pain and suffering, I'l try best as I can to avoid inflicting it. Very complex question, but a very good one. I think the possibilities are varied and are dependent upon many factors. I'll take a guess that much has to do with intent. Whether we intend to cause harm or whether it's accidental, and the degree to which we feel remorse for the harm we have inflicted. The question 'how will karma bear it's fruit?' also reminds me of something Master Hsuan Hua said. It was along the lines of "ordinary peple fear the results [of karma], Bodhisattvas fear the causes". I take that saying to mean that ordinarily we fear the retribution of what might happen to us for the offences we have done, whereas Bodhisattvas fear (avoid) doing the bad things in the first place, not because they are fearful of the retribution, but because they are aware that an act done to another is an act done to ones self. Agree. I think the more we meditate, the more sensitive and potentially compassionate we become. The boundaries of 'self' are less narowly defined as me and mine, and gradually broaden to encompass (eventually) everything/everyone. Ramana Maharshi demostrated many compassionate acts towards animals for years. Also, there are stories of Shakyamuni Buddha performing many acts of kindness to animals in many of his past lives. It seems to me that, the deeper we go, the more life itself in all it's various manifestations becomes more and more profound.

Two years ago there was a tiger snake that had taken up residence in a corner of our yard. Tiger snakes are one of the most dangerous in the world. The risk to leave it there was too great and no one would even go outside anymore for fear of it possibly striking. It remained in the same area of the garden for over a week, so a family member decided they would kill it after returning from a weekend away. But by doing this, they would be putting themself in real danger. I really did not want it to be killed, but knowing that the family member was determined to do so, i faced a dilema. I really did not want the family member risking their life, so I decided to kill the snake while they were away. This was a very difficult decision. Before carrying out the act, i apologised in advance to the snake, saying that another person was determined to kill it, and I didn't want them to face the risk involved on doing so. I apologised again and again, and eventually terminated the snakes' life. Imediately afterwards, I cried and felt terrible. That night I had a very vivid dream where my body was covered in snakes crawling all over me. I was ready to face to retribution that I was expecting the snake to deal out to me. They were angry with me, yet somehow understood my reluctance in killing the tiger snake who was obviously a memeber of their family, and that I did it only so that my family member would not put themself in danger. In some way, I honestly feel that snakes understood that though they lost a member of their family, I had risked my own saftey for the sake of a member of my family, and so they eventualy left me and the dream ended. To this day, I still sometimes pray for that snake, dedicating merits to it, and I'm also glad that my family member did not face a dangerous situation. We should always avoid killing. May all beings have peace.

Oh, i read this quote a long time ago. The version i heard is that the man dropped something very valuable to himself into the deep water, and so because of it's value he was determined to retrieve it...................... "with a keen one-pointed mind, controlling speech and breath, and find the place whence the 'I' originates." Wonderful analogy, reminds me of the single minded approach employed in Ch'an.

You might have miscontrued what i said, so for the puropose of clarification, i'll just repeat the crux of it. That is far from being oppressive, it's just a heads up that it helps to watch what comes out of our mouth. I said that from the experience i have from using harsh speech myself and also freom being on the recieving end. It is generally dis-harmonious.Clean words, clean heart, clean mind, clean world it's all inter-related

>>nods in respectful agreement<< Agreed Cat & thank you too. Stig keeps the mood light, he is funny witty and wise and helpful to many people who post questions for advice.

There's the inherent nature and the causative nature. The inherent nature is originaly bright and undefiled. The causastive nature has been superimposed over the inherent nature, it's the one that we have created through discrimination & habits and are most often identified with these days. If this is wrong, can a wise advisor please correct me. Namo Avalokiteshvara.

Pseudo spirituality? Oh, is suggesting that we watch what we say pseudo spirituality? No worries call it that. The Yellow Elders' Stone Book Of Plain Words says: "Now TAO, virtue, benevolance, rectitude and decorum - these five things are all one principle" Our speech actions and intentions reflect where our heart and mind are - nothing pseudo about that. Saying that people can only be what they are is simply to surrender to one's conditioning and act acording to it and then it's easy to remain in the same pattern of behaviour claiming that it's just 'how I am'. But what we are is what we have become according to the things we have done, that's all. If someone swears and uses harsh speech, i personally have no beef with that, but just be aware that when we do act in such a way we are effectively spitting in our own face as well as other peoples' face - and some people don't like that and so they reflect it back to us......and on and on it goes Cause and effect can be very subtle yet profound .....................reminds me of a zen saying something along the lines of 'a butterfly flapping it's wings and the effect being felt on the other side of the world'. The masters, Buddhas etc didn't tell people how to live ther lives in the sense of giving orders..........they taught harmonious principles and offered people the freedom to decide - with the warning that we experince the affect of our words & actions sooner or later.

Hear Ye >>nods in quite agreement<< When we speak using foul language we are simply spreading our internal pollution outwards.......and there are people or things that will sooner or later probably pick up on it and continue the process, potientially reflecting it back to us 10 fold. This can just create a perpetual cylce that goes on and on. We actually have an amazing responsibilty in life to try as best we can to cause no deliberate offense to any being. I've been guilty of harsh speech and gestures too many times which has caused hurt to myself and others, but if we recognise it and subsequently at least make an effort to 'keep it clean', it can go a long way to harmonising ourselves and creating a more peaceful environment all round. - That's the influence our words can have - it can go either way depending on us.

Lust, desire etc is an outward projection, the mind wanting something out there (eg a beautiful woman etc). So the body simply follows the mind's directive and builds up pressure in order to project towards that object of desire. The physiological responses are sometimes called 'natural', or part of the Tao, and so we may just resign ourselves to it, but really they are only the manifestation of the deep and lives-long old habit which only dis-integrates a person. That's one of things about lust, and other deep forms of karma, we may have been carrying the habit for so long, that we don't even recogonise it's potentially harmful effect anymore. Lust can also obscure the development of wisdom. Mater Hsuan Hua: "The Shurangama Sutra says, "If one doesn't cut off lust, one won't be able to leave the dust. The Shurangama Sutra also says, "Trying to cultivate samadhi without cutting off lust is like cooking sand trying to obtain rice. It can't be done." If we contemplate the truth of this, we will know where the Treasury of the Proper Dharma Eye lies" In the effort to transcend it, we can employ both self-effort, and ask for the assistance of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. Self effort is through meditation, intention to change our old ways, being mindful etc. Asking for assistance is to request with a sincere and humble heart to the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas that they please assist us to eliminate our unhelpful habits. Whe we are are genuine in our request, they do hear and help us. "If there are beings of much lust who are constantly mindful of and humbly respectful to the Bodhisattva He Who Observes the Sounds of the World, they shall straightway contrive to be separated from their lust." = Lotus Sutra, Universal door chapter on Guan Yin.

With ya brother Not withstanding the utility that Siddhis may play in certain circumstances, they alone are not necessarily reliable signs of a true master IMO. Only just the other day I read Master Hsuan Hua also say to someone who was asking about this subject that abilities are simply one outcome of cultivation - ultimatley no big deal. My own take on the "criteria to determine a true master" is one who: - is totaly wise - is full of compassion - has no anger greed, lust, ignorance - has seen through and understands everything. Namo Avalokiteshvara

WOW!!! Just as i was begining my self-imposed ban for a few weeks. Then i read this story, so i felt obliged to say thank you. Wonderful, wonderful story Stig. That really touched me.

you know the worrying thing Gerry? it didn't even occur to us that the pink bunny thing was strange, we didnt even blink an eye at it, but really what where they thinking??? do you know how hard i laughed when you posted that energizer ad? humour is fun, and you know how to be funnny mate spot in James another short one: the other night i was eating dinner and this mosquitoe was buzzing around my face. unconciously and recklessly i wacked it really hard with my hand to get it out of the way. i could have killed it or something and i felt bad as soon as id done it, but then didn't think any more about it. a little bit later i was sitting down meditating and just as i was becomming really quiet & deep, this mosqitoe came and bit me on the forehead. I realised that i deserved it for having hit it earlier, and i also felt the mosquitoes' pain that i had inflicted on it. truly, an act done to another is also an act done to ones' self. Namo Amitabha Buddha

HAHAHAHA. I remember that ad Oi !!!!!

Yeah, i've been meaning to ban myself for a while now. Soon......

HAHAHA man you know how to be funny

just to add (if i may) "When the Buddha spoke Dharma and taught people according to their needs, he was like a physician dispensing the right medicine to each patient. Therefore, one cannot say of any part of his teachings that they are right or wrong per se". --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Quotes from the Venerable Master Hsuan Hua

Hence the need for meditation leading to a freedom from dreams Gossamer, im very glad you liked it, maybe people can add other stories along this theme, whether of personal experience, or otherwise. I think it would be a good way to inspire each other? (i'm tempted to add some personal stories soon maybe)

Ditto Todd

It's like someone saying "i'll drink the rain that falls here, but not over there."