thelerner

Good to hear. My 17 year old is there now. Touring and doing some volunteer work. Setting up mushrooms farms I believe. Hope he learns well, he could set some up here :).

that was my second guess.

Huh. So that's what New Jersey's named after. Seems apropo. I always thought of it as America's olde time Australia.. Happy 4rth everyone and just remember, without our brave revolutionaries we'd be.. Canada right now.

I've had formal and informal teachers. Both have advantages. Many with the Western mindset found the formal teachers, in my case Japanese to be stifling and couldn't accept them. I found them refreshing. Sit properly, listen keenly, keep your mouth shut, and watch carefully. No or few questions, doing. Figure it out for yourself. Less analysis, more practice. Respect such teachers and you can learn alot. If it doesn't jibe with you, don't go to there class or write in there threads, beyond stating your truth and walking away. You may lose something with this attitude because some of these prickly formal teachers, who demand strict manners are gold mines. Follow there rules and you get good insight. Whereas the nice informal talkative 'buddy' teachers have you analyze this, consider that and you never get to the heart of the matter. Good to be comfortable in both worlds. And I thank Awaken for reminding us of the rules and manners in her tradition.

, lets not confuse heavy posting with knowledge. Still, the West if filled with philosophical "taoists", those influences by pieces of Taoist philosophy and focus on them. Such people would not be considered Taoists in China. We lose depth, but escape cultural dogmatism. Maybe to find what you're missing you need to dig deep. Start reading Thomas Cleary's translations of The Taoist Classics https://www.amazon.com/Taoist-Classics-Collected-Translations-Shambhala/dp/1570629056/ref=la_B000AP6ZLI_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1499183803&sr=1-7. These books are cheap, get you closer to the source, and provide the bread crumbs that you're looking for.

Pick your fights in this world. Do what you can, but also don't cripple yourself. Stare too long into the black poisons of the world and you twist your own soul and ruin your own life. The darkness is not the whole picture. There's a thousand good things going on every day, maybe every moment. We have to train ourselves to notice and celebrate those too. That's where your energy will come from. That is what will grow our spirit. Do what you can to fix the world. Little bits, from smiles, to charity.. Do something, not mental masturbation of suffering and complaining, rather do something constructive, with real results. Karma yoga, helping others. You fight injustice by making the world a better place. In the West we're fed a diet of macho violence as cure all. It's a tool to keep in one's bag, but not a good one. Movies end with the hero walking off, but real life violence doesn't end so easily. Destruction is easy. Like knocking over a dominoes and you never know where they'll stop. Building is hard. Patience is hard but that's how things grow. Daoism- follow nature. Want to learn how to deal with injustice, learn to garden. There are lessons there in patience and planning; caring and pruning. Be skillful and prepared- Accept the soil and improve it. Accept the drought and water. Plant seeds where they will thrive. Grow fruits for energy, vegetables for strength, and flowers for the ladies. That's the Dao.. to me.

my take, Daoist seeks harmony with nature. Using skillful (from taoist alchemy, qi gung, simple diet) means they enjoy and enhance there life. Living now, death is less relevant. Maybe a few obsess over 'immortality' but I think most accept death as part of life. Cultural baggage (including religious Taoism) may influence there thoughts on what happens after death but being focused on the here and now, being at peace, death is less relevant.

I don't know, he's married to a pig!? and it's never easy being green.

Never saw it before, but it's described in Glenn Morris's book (Pathnotes of a..) He went through the test himself. Supposedly in earlier days, it was performed with a live blade not a bokken! But things were always tougher back then, weren't they. addon> whoops someone beat me to this factoid.

Thanks for the Stats JohnD. Seems like some of the long awaited breakthroughs in Solar are finally becoming commercial. With rates near and in some cases below conventional sources. Now we need storage technology to catch up and we should see some positive developments in the next decade or two. Many countries (including the US) are using less oil each year. Cars are getting more efficient, old inefficient polluters are aging out. We can now get 60 'watts' of light from an 8 watt bulb, and that bulb (if led) will last 8 to 10 times longer. There are some good trends going on. It'd be nice to see some new paradigms in the housing. Seems like many of designs are not that much different then 50 years ago. I'd like to humongous mobile 3D fabricators 'printing' houses.. not just cookie cutter but individualistic then rolling on.

I was taught, good science tells us what things are good religion tells us how to use them ethically.

The more I accept and admit to myself that I don't know the happier I am. In truth there is relatively little we actually know for sure. Including pretty much anything about the future. What'll be good, what'll be bad.. we guess, but don't know.. and that causes so much of our anxiety. Guessing and assuming then fuming over our mental mirages. Guess what I'm saying is as we get older and wiser, 'I don't know' is a fine refuge. That, and having confidence you can handle what comes next.

ofcourse.. riots.. fine. thank you. I bow out of this thread. clap claps, shows hands, backs away feels sensei's hands slapping back with loud shout 'Too much Kuchiwaza Michael'

I know.. talking if, or how much you practice, or if you have any siddhis is taboo because it give people 'ammo' against you. But I didn't ask where you are right now. I asked where you expect to be in 20 years? Since you constantly mention the JC video; do you expect lighting newspapers with your mind? Be able to move empty boxes with the wave of your hand? Or light a christmas bulb? In 20 years, will you be able to do that? Yes? No??? uhmnn, that stuff will be too hard, or too easy??

How about this.. Ilovecoffee, where do you expect to be in 20 years? With your Mo Pai training I mean. Can you answer that?

I suspect the MPG group are unable to write about personal experiences, due to lack. In truth most every other art does better because they can write from there own experience, not show 20 year old videos from a man no longer in public, who trained with masters. You are like guys trying to master Kung Fu, by watching the entire 1970's Kung Fu TV series. Which was excellent and did have very knowledgeable experienced people write it. That's where where you are, if that's not good enough for you, find an art with a live teacher who'll give you feedback. One where you can learn from live- the subtleties of the art and the dangers within. Also good for keeping your ego in check. Very important.. without such you're fooling yourself.

OMG, your head is bleeding. oh shit, you should look into that. Wait.. your way is to exaggerate when cornered. Its not bleeding. Likewise you don't have to 'train 24x7 with John himself'. You do have to train in Indonesia or with a reputable approved school and Mo Pai teacher. That may be doable. It might take work or travel but it may be possible. You could at least stop spouting the 'MPG corporate line' and find authentic Mo Pai students and get there input. That'd be the honest way. I suspect they'll echo Tongkosong. Look at your own reply. You're mentioning a 20 year old John Chang video. Why? Because JC showed magic powers in it, then others can get powers by doing Mo Pai, right? But did student Jim McMillan have powers? How long have you studied, do you? Or others? Are you training like they do in Indonesia and do they have powers? You, yourself earlier hinted at the (mental) problems of many who obsess on Mo Pai looking for them.. The reason these threads last 20 to 30 pages is you guys have 9 pre-recorded answers and you keep spitting them out.

Please re-read the notes from tongkosong, an Indonesia student. Like a Mormon (no offense to them, using them as an example) they see the Book of Mormon as ofcourse equal to the bible. How can it be doubted. Like them, if you were actually trained in Mo Pai, by the Mo Pai school, the real authentic one in Indonesia, by a certified teacher. You would undoubtedly hold the same view as Tongkosong. But, like a Mormon, you were trained to regard certain books as 'canon' from the start, even though no authentic Mo Pai practitioner would. Thus you have powerful cognitive dissonance. I'm sure what you know is not a bad system and many benefits. But if you think it'll make you into a 'John Chang' it won't. At best you could become like Jim McMillan from his writings he got alot of out the system. I just read a wonderful very poignant letter he wrote how it changed and improved his life. I'm sure it did. Power-wise though, after 10-12 years of practicing (3 or 4 hours a day?), he could move his hand in a darkened basement and make empty boxes across the room fall IF John Chang (& friends) were in the room. So, power-wise that's pretty weak after spending 10 to 12,000 hours on the system if 'powers' are what you're looking and don't have JC in your basement at all times. However he was smart enough to know and write that the benefits were elsewhere. Not powers, but understanding, even love. If you want I can try to dig up t letter he wrote on the internet, very touching. What I'm getting at is, your gang tries to sell MP using 20 year old John Chang videos, and on the power they'll give you. Seems bait and switch to me. As so many traditions have stated, focus too much on power acquisition and you end up bad places. Hell even Kostas who practically wrote your bible is no longer practices and like John Chang your actual prophet says bug off. No wonder there's a strange bitter undercurrent to you guys. Also, something else occurs to me. You guys want attention and I'm giving it to you, we all are. You're welcome.

Are you serious? I've started a serious, no humor, no anti-Mo pai tirades, just serious talk on Mo Pai techniques. And you've spammed it 5 or 6 times with sarcastic remarks. You honestly only came here to fight about Mo Pai not discuss it. But I can do that too. In my thread on Serious Mo Pai, I do allow quotes and information from the books. It should be known that to some extent they're kinda like foreigners who've learned about Christianity through Mormon missionaries then come to the US and find many of there beliefs are not mainstream, in some cases are considered laughable and made up. Not that there's no value to them. It should be known Western Mo Pai has that kind of feel to those who've studied in Indonesia. Here are quotes from an Indonesian student. ** note he's saying how great he is, or even Mo Pai is, he's just stating that his schools view, Western Mo Pai is not accurate. On the other hand, thats not saying its wrong, just in translation, things get mixed up.

grease is the word

Having polite 'experts' show up would be great. That's the point, learning and discussing the techniques of Mo Pai. As far as knowing better then what Jim and Kosta taught, that is one of the things that leads to circular arguments, ie from Tongkosong, an Indonesian student of Mo Pai saying there are problems with there writings and status as Mo Pai teachers. We have a dozen threads where this is argued, so I don't want to repeat it again ad nauseum. If you do, re-read the old threads, dozens if not 100 or so pages. They circle round it, over and over. Instead let's look and analyze Mo Pai techniques. Starting with sitting. Hopefully we'll get replies from those who know the books, and even better those who actively participate in the art. Simply write about sitting in Mo Pai. Maybe later we'll get into packing chi, as well as what there definition of Chi is. But not now. For a few days.. just sitting. Sorry if that's controversial or too crazy or giving people ammo to use against you, but we most us don't want what you do- the 24/7 fighting over Mo Pai. Instead a calm thread looking at it's techniques. Not different what we have on other arts, but because of crazies history enthusiasm , this one has to be more controlled.

Let's see how that turns out. I'm hoping for a pretty dry clinical controlled discussion. There's a decent chance that won't be a problem. If there's a post you have a special concern about I will consider hiding or having the writer change it. Lets not overthink things or imagine dark futures. I am off to bed.

Sorry you won't be joining (you did provide the challenge and inspiration). Hopefully we'll have others who are somewhat knowledgeable. There will be no trolling, no sarcasm, no sidelining humor in the thread. No jumping ahead either. History, pro's and con's are to be avoided or rather hidden or deleted. I intend for it to be a slow step by step analysis of the Mo Pai system. Starting with there philosophy of sitting.

Really?? A discussion about Mo Pai, avoiding the things that historically cause the insult loop? Why not. Aren't levels 1 and 2 pretty much public and in various books, articles, pdfs etc., Heck I don't mind if we stay on level 1, depending on interest. Are techniques so unimportant? I'm not looking for pro or anti, rather I'm looking for discussion on Mo Pai techniques, there similarities and differences to other similar practices. Beginning with.. how do they sit. In Aikido we'd have classes in how to sit- It's physics, subtleties, how to get up, sit down, martial aspects, the how's, why's history. Your leg, muscle and vein systems are affected by how you sit. It's always amazing how deep simple things are. Sitting, breathing.. I'm hoping it presents a good chance for learning. I will intend to keep tight control over it.