thelerner

backpacker axiom #9 freedom begins when we throw the map away still.. gotta peek every now and then.

On a serious note. Seems to me that Astral travel should be easy to prove, yet looking on the internet and at books, I can't find the evidence. I believe it real, hope it is. Can anyone point me in the right direction to find a study? I'm looking for proof beyond anecdotal. Just a person being able to repeatedly name a sign or object in another room after going astral.

I don't think they'd get angry at anyone for meditating. They might get angry if you were learning there ancestral system though without permission. If these are older gents, they might well have prejudices against Whites and the West who historically treated them quite poorly. I was referring to a youtube, the one with the English guys commentary where he see's Chang in the morning and he's say's he clearly scared. Then says Chang will no longer teach to Westerners. <I forget the exact video, but it must have been part of the much longer film. It strikes me that if the Spirits of the Elders (whatever they are) had told Chang not to teach Westerners it would be no big deal, but if he was scared and I take it that a man like Chang doesn't scare easily then they probably added a threat along with it. Don't teach Westerners or else kind of thing.

As discussed 26 pages ago, the gist of SoG's argument is that '72' is widely used in a number of systems to represent different things, often 'Completion'. Ie he postulated that 72 'levels' was not meant to be taken literally. Those misc. items were examples; they didn't have anything to do with Mo Pai, they were examples of how widely used 72 was. Tonkosong, who seems as reliable a source as we have said "The 72 levels are referring to the number of xue dao(s) in our body." <actually I'm not sure what a xue dao is> In my eyes he (SoG) wasn't sure, just throwing it out there as an educated guess. Seems he was right. Its an example of how easy it is to miss fundamental meanings when your looking at a foreign system and don't have a live experienced teacher for feedback. It's a concept that be answered in a moment by an experienced teacher, but with Mo Pai, they simply aren't around.

I'm certainly no expert, I've heard good things about Robert Peng, but I'm unfamiliar with practices. To truly know if its the practice or due to something else you need a live expert, so take advice with a grain of salt. Few people have such strong reactions to energy work, masturbation or not, though some very sensitive people need more precautions. Still the rule of thumb is when things get strange back off the practice. Stop or greatly reduce the energy work. Often simple 'grounding' type exercise is best, and that can be simply long walks, or simple sitting. Time and not worrying about it, tends to heal many problems. I think the program is from Sounds True, you can email them and get their and maybe Peng's feedback. You can also repost this in the Healing Section here and get more advice, but stopping it, longs walks, and not worrying too much are not a bad plan A. Good luck. Being very energy sensitive is a double edge sword, they tend to need to start slower and have live teachers; they also tend to go further in energy practices once its safely established.

I tend to be in the 'Aint broken, don't fix it' camp. Though sometimes you need to grow organically or things stagnate. One aspect to beware of is jargon; words not known by most of the population and make newbies assume we are too exotic. Frankly I'm not that familiar with the word Darsanas, and others might be put off by it. my 3 bits.

Yet.. we may want to be sages or saints, but we're not. Every now and then you've got to express your true inner feelings, lest they manifest internally or externally in other negative ways. Thus imo there is a time and place to shake the other person up, and state your truth loudly and emotionally. Living together is a 2 way street, martyrdom is for saints who are on their way out.

Brilliant. I've always classified Taomeow in terms of same planet, different world. A person of rare knowledge and experience who sees and interprets the world in a way vastly different then most. Beyond excellent scholarship, she walks the Taoist/shamanic path. Its not just clear explanations of hard questions like the nature of ghosts and immortals, but from seemingly mundane question like 'What's your favorite color', comes lessons and insight. Thank you very much for taking the time to answer.

Never mind on vacation. Can't post w phone. Puerto Rico beautiful, tomorrow the Turks should be lovely

Its not our rule, its Mo Pai's. There are many Qi Gong systems that are open and teach all. But John Chang was pretty clear in one of the online videos that Mo Pai was not to be taught to Westerners. There's a video where the announcer says (I'm paraphrasing) "he looks clearly frightened, the elders (spirits) sent him a strong message last night, not to teach any Westerners." The sad fact is Jim (a nice and worthy guy) died an early death, and as far as I know John Chang did not make an attempt to heal him. I could be wrong, it'd be nice if I was. Could be the reason he didn't try to heal (not that any healer is 100%) might be due to Jim teaching Westerners against the will of the Elders, excommunicated'ish. Such Spirit Elders are outside the paradigm for most of us, we tend to ignore them or consider the belief superstition. That might not always be wise. Having spent time last summer talking to people who consider the Hindu Gods as real as there mother and father, I'm more reserved on the subject then I used to be.

We'd do similar testing of stances in Ki-Aikido. Actually there was levels of pushing. First, just push, then push with ummph and follow through. Harder would be Fake, stopping an inch from contact then a strong push. Then pushing in a up and over manner. Hardest would be holding the hand an inch or two away and waiting until there attention waivered, then a strong push.

I think I found some proof.

I inherent my suffering from my parents & give it to my children .

This often doesn't do a lick of good. But when things are bad, the sky is blue, grass is green, air is fresh- the lungs drink it in and it provides life. There's a mental trick to shutting out the past and present future and just appreciating the breath and colors of the world. Doesn't always work. I cycle through guided meditations. This morning I listened to Glenn Morris's Secret Smile. Its very good. I'm a better person when I do the practice a couple times a day, usually in the washroom. Maybe I'll make it my side practice the next couple of weeks.

Lets not get lost in minutiae, its an interesting theory that 72 might not represent a literal number. It'd be interesting if anyone had information, but in the scheme of things its not too important. Numerology is a pretty fuzzy field. Here on the bums Mo Pai's has tended to create way more animosity then it should. Let's point this thread in a better direction. Cause without a bit of positivity it'll end up drifting downward. What are the positives of Mo Pai? What bang for the buck can a practitioner honestly hope for, without the expectation they'll become the next John Chang.

Thanks for joining. It'd be interesting to hear what the trip and its itinerary is like.

I thought SoG's posts about 72 were a bit wordy, but the point is interesting. That '72' is about completion not number of levels. So there's not a book spending 10 pages on how to get from level 56 to 57. There are levels, but 72 is a reference about cycles and completion. It'd be easy for an outsider to miss that. There are a couple examples in the bible where there are numbers that people take literally where its really a code meaning they 'walked with God'. Yet without the understanding its easy to take such numbers literally and supernaturally. It'd nice to have an authority and they're out there. I know GrandmasterP has talked to Changs son and MJ Becker has excellent first hand knowledge. No idea if its true or not, but there is a sense to it. From a martial arts point of view, levels break down after a certain point. Unless you're teaching a kids class and need lots of levels and stripes to keep people going. I simply see it hard getting 72 distinct levels of difference. You'd hope there'd be at least a couple of people at each level walking around. I wish that was the case in Mo Pai, but I don't see it or know that its out there. Especially since levels in the 30's are deemed to be 'immortality'. Sometimes its not so much mix and match, its gaining a wider perspective that comes from study and scholarship of a wide range of relevant material.

hmnn, didn't work that way for me . back to OP, I'd assume you lose more energy worrying about such a thing, then the act itself. Which is true of so many things.

Mod Comment: To Dark Templar Nothing in particular but when taken in total, your comments on this and other Vitalli threads are very close to Trolling. Its probably not the way you see them, but they are a hair away from getting you a warning. The point isn't up for debate. Its time to move on. Perhaps you could start a new thread on an aspect of Taoism that interests you.

I know, but its still 'feelings'. Until there's a better way to quantify it, it'll continue to be a pseudo science.

This is getting mundane, Lets heat it up. What yer take on Yin and yan chi? I think if yin chi was referred to as 'earth' chi in this instance, it'd mean the same thing, but 95% of the controversy would go away. Its not like this stuff is easily seen or measured. For something so hard to describe and measure, some people get foam in there mouth if someone describes it differently. And there's the problem of translations, chi/qi in an Eastern dictionary has a pageful of definitions, or so I'm told. But in the West we hold tightly to just a single one, depending on our school. Again, what your take on yin and yan and how they they mix. Gin, vodka, shaken, stirred or compressed?

Actually, if I was safely in another room, such as in my bedroom and obviously something was going on downstairs, I might well put a couple of rounds into an outer wall, and yell 'Get the Hell out of my house', way before opening the door and poking around myself. I assume the average house burglar wants to grab and run, and isn't interested in shootouts. That's only one scenario, but probably a likely one.

I think the enlightened are still people. They can even be (at times) imperfect people. Like anyone else they can get tired of a world and a crowd that says gimme gimme gimme.

Good points, but science- Western science is about measurement. Your talking about the effects of chi. Can Chi be measured? By a device? Does the chi-o-meter exist?

In my travels I've found Canadians and Australians be good traveling companions and hard drinkers.