thelerner

Let me thimblelize my argument and bow out. 1. First and mainly, its not about Mo Pai, its about a dickish attitude that fundamentalists have that makes them constantly repeat: I'm right all others are deluded. Always tiresome, from someone with little experience even worse. Expect others to feel the same you do, when they hear true believers (religious or nei gung oriented) pulling that shit. silly errata I shouldn't mention- 2. If it was about Mo Pai, you might be screwed. Using Kostas book as a blue print bible may be a mistake, he's apparently not practicing Mo Pai himself and its questionable if it ever had Changs seal of approval or accuracy. More importantly, John Chang clearly says his (powerful) teachers in the Mo Pai spirit world told him/warned him/ scared him not to teach Westerners. I'm pretty sure that means they don't want Westerner's learning there art. By studying Mo Pai you're going against the wishes of the spirit elders who may be kind of powerful (if you believe that kind of thing, & John Chang does). Evidence to back that up?? Jim's dead, that's not definitive proof ofcourse, but it'd be in the Against Westerns practicing column. Imo a lineage nei gung art like Mo Pai is not just practices, its also about attaching yourself to it, ie gaining its spiritual baggage. Often a good thing, in Mo Pai's case, it seems a clear cut case of the spiritual elders saying No way Whitey. You don't like it or respect it, that's fine. Just understand that its out there and if more advanced Western practitioners die, you may want to consider backing off. <do you need me to include the video of Pak John saying his spirit elders came to him and told him not to teach Westerners? I can dig it up>

Have you ever considered using the word 'I' or "In the system I follow' when making blanket statements- Instead of 'You'? The last 15 posts have been about the subject you repeatedly dismiss. When you read comments from people like Spotless, who (I assume) has decades of experience on you (I think you're a teen with relatively little, please correct me if I'm wrong) you either don't read it, or it bounces off. Its not in your world view, so it can't be true. That's one reason why we some people here tend to think of you a fundamentalist. You repeat the exact same lines pretty often. When someone writes about doing things outside your paradigm you insist it's impossible. When pressed you quote from your bible instead of being able to use first hand knowledge. If you've ever dealt with Mormon missionaries, its a very similar experience.

From what I've read, yes. It does pretty well at that, maybe not for laymen, but for the hardcore and monks, its got a good reputation for leading to- its own definition of enlightenment. Course few terms are as slippery as enlightenment.

Hypnotica, the group that does guided meditations like Sphinx of the Imagination? Which of there hypnotic routines do you like? If we're thinking of the same group. As I recall they had some inexpensive audios on hulu.com

Putting their contents into (perfect/deep) practice seems to be the hard part. Not to mention deciding exactly which contents to put into practice. Its rare enough a single sacred book doesn't contradict itself, read 3 and you're bound to get contradicting advice. One Buddha, many forms of Buddhism. Still, 3 to 5 years of study.. not a bad place to start. If that's your bag.

It is not the button that goes on and off. It is your mind.

When i was in an ashram a lecturer talked about how in vedic/ hindu thinking the major forces were creation and destruction, not unlike yin and yan, but they also had a third force, sustaining. I wonder if sustaining is kinda like the line along the figure 8/taichi symbol. A sin wave captured, and rolling into itself, and when we can draw inside the lines, but outside, we're gone??

I dig the template of Sivananda Ashram. (and I don't even do yoga) Beautiful, knockout natural beauty, ie on a Caribbean Island, some huts on the beach. A normal program with 2 long indepth yoga classes morning and afternoon, 2 longer meditation sessions, a guest lecturer and finally a chance to take a multi day specialty course from flown in teacher. I think meditation starts early about 6 am. Great veggie food served buffet style 2 a day. Sinful escapes possible to the Atlantis's Starbucks, greater sinful escapes to Atlantis's casino. Finally a long journey just over the Nassau bridge to the dozens of tiny restaurants serving conch fritters, chowders, fresh fish and local beer at bargain prices.

catfish taste good, but its a bitch getting them off the hook.

Mod comment: This OP/subject is rife for flame bait possibilites Please keep comments inline with board policy.

Maybe mindfulness is a better word for it, yet in some activities I cling to the belief its possible to act at a level deeper then that. You see top people perform and there's magic in it. Can you move energy without being seated and in trance?? Isn't that what (high quality) chi gung / taichi/ buagua (and others) is all about? Its not a substitute for seated, but a moving forms imo are an ideal compliment to it. Beyond philosophy and semantics, I'm saying take advantage of the master who opens up about an art done through the lens of spirituality. The right fit is life changing and a chance to cultivate and grow. Don't let pre judging keep you from joining such classes. At the end of the 'Secret Smile' practice there is line 'I strive to become a complete human being' (or maybe I've just added it in myself), and part of the concept has to be more then sitting, no matter how powerful it is. You can't leave 'it' on the mat. Imo beyond moving and seated sequences we need wisdom practice as well; something as simple as listening to the wise (i like infinitesmile.org and podcasts from ajahn brahm lectures). Will such things give you power and abilities? No, but it'll help make life less crazy on the way there, if thats your goal.

Spiritual people also need food, shelter, security and a few of the nicer things in life. Contrary to 'The Wish' I don't think money comes to the cultivated any easier or magically then anyone else. Those who are too giving may collect leeches who take and do not give back. There are wonderful Ashrams out there (I love Sivananda on Paradise Island), with very spiritual and saintly people, but they expect to be paid before you walk in. On a positive note, I take you're near Oregon or Washington already, and you want a 3 to 7 day break from life for $200. I'd suggest finding an exception spiritual book/CD/Podcast or series, and take it with you on a journey. Find a beautiful area with a cheap $30 to $40 a night hotel, stay there, hike, read, consider. Dig deep into the book and consider it a detox time from civilizations. Then your next questions should be- Which book/source, finding a cheap hotel near some beauty and getting there.

I come from a Japanese arts background, and if your making art and you're not working with chi, then your doing it wrong. In a sport like soccer it might be hard, its distractive atmosphere, but for many things its possible. You can meditative and cultivate chi while doing them. Calligraphy, music are famous examples of arts conducive towards cultivation. Again I think you have a very tight definition of what meditation and cultivation is. So tight, there may only be a single 'true' type and all others must be told loudly and often they're delusional. The problem there is you never get exposed to a whole world of other styles of cultivation and its easy to become lobsided. There's a whole mind/body coordination, wisdom arts, awareness arts that you may be glossing over and disdaining because they're not directly energy manipulating and condensing.

Great minds think alike

Is this the trick where you point the car fob under your chin, open your mouth in the direction of the car to extend the range? I saw this, used it, seems to work. I've always thought it was due to the reflection from the hard skull then brain matter.

Believing vs Knowing. I suppose if its still there and true after you stop believing, then it passes into knowing. hate to get to get religious but there's the person who truly believes in Jesus and then there's person and says 'Hey Jesus' and a man appears out of thin air and says 'Yo, what?'

I found my Dim Mak abilities improved greatly once I started doing it with a knife

From a martial arts sense, it helps to go to seminars in your art from famous reputable sensei's in other branches. In the Chicagoland area in the Aikido set we'd have world class people coming through every year or so and you could take 3 day long classes with them, one of the most impressive to me being Mitsugi Saotome. (The man moved like he was on skates and threw like roller coaster) He'd always draw a large crowd from across the Midwest and from all styles of Aikido. Seminars like his were a good way to see how techniques and philosophy differed and compare yourself to others from around nearby states. I suppose the same might be applicable if you went to a meditative intensive. Though that could be trickier.

location, location, location. Find a cheap location, not too far from a metropolis and do a design that's mostly underground. You keep the pyramid shape, it'll blend in better w/ the environment then going full pyramid, huge savings on temperature costs since the ground insulates and cools. Think Egyptian hobbits. I envision 2 or 3 floors underground, central tube/revolving stair case leading to the top and dispersing natural light through east/west solar tubes.

Thanks for the write up. Seems like you've had experience with shrooms. Have all your experiences been positive?

So.. can you fit into modern society? Or can pave a good life as an outsider? A hard feat, which is certainly possible and praise worthy.

I agree, perhaps my definition of meditation is more encompassing. There are sensie's who teach with some depth walking meditation, tea meditation and such. Beyond mindfulness there are lessons in how to how to sit, proper posture, how to grasp a cup, how to smell. We often aren't taught these things and go through our lives doing them poorly. A problem I have w/ KenB philosophy is the total dismissal, (& I suspect without much experience) of almost all methods and teachers, will keep them from opening up to learning techniques that'll improve there lives. Can you cook in a meditative state, mind and senses open, cocooned in a state of emptiness? It ain't easy, but yes, it can be done. Not all meditation is aimed at Mo Pai's immortality or energy manipulation; to dismiss such things as deluded is silly, because you'll never open yourself up important lessons.

I don't see it as a this or that situation. Its good, critically important really to 'go deep'. Yet, its also important not to separate meditation from the rest of our lives. You'll do things better if you approach them in a meditative state of mind. There are some activities that are not conducive, but others like cooking and often in private work, you can actually perform in a meditative state. It is a different kind of meditation, but vitally important. I've always thought we sit quietly in meditation because its hard to do it in motion while doing other things. Hard, shouldn't be a no. If we can't bring meditative states into the rest of our lives (at times) then we're trying to polish rocks into mirrors.

You guys set a high bar. If I can just master the 3 remote controls it takes to turn on, adjust volume and change the channel of my TV I'm pretty happy. I've met some masters, sometimes its not worth the extreme sacrifice. My road is just to get a little better, now and then.

Well screw those murderous Aliens. They're certainly more cold blooded and murderous then us Earthers. Our military in charge of protecting us was overzealous, but they were pretty happy to murder everyone. Perspective is so important. In both movies they're portrayed as heroes, but by there actions, they're genocidal. As far as young versus old, hopefully ones perspective expands when one is older. Experience should expand it. Not always, sadly sometimes it calcifies.