thelerner

This reminds me of some of the taoist 'Steaming' practices. Where you imagine/feel the dantien getting hotter and it heats water/ice in a cauldron above until there is steam that fills the body. A bit like some tummo exercises. Just wondering if this strikes a chord in the notion of filling vs opening. Michael

mind monkey = monkey mind sometimes wild horse or Ox mind, its when your thoughts run wild and it seems you have no control of them. Glen Morris who taught a Kundalini system mentioned in one of his books that Kundalini gave him a better memory but made him worse at trivia games because trivia and unimportant things were finally 'filed' properly in his mind and no longer took up valuable room. Spirituality 101 is having a quiet mind, you seem to be getting there, somewhat unwillingly. Its a change, but spiritually speaking, its one for the better. As we get older we put away childish things. LOOK shiny SPORTCAR. LOOK SQUIRREL.

Good point. Placebos can be amazingly powerful. Strangely even when the patient doesn't know but the doctor does it influences and increases cure rates!? Thus the need for double blind. Also the strange power of new medicine versus old. Telling people this is the latest most powerful stuff, gets great results. When the medicine becomes common place they lose that extra zip, until they're renamed, replaced or rebranded. Still I understand where Seth is coming from, people die on placebos and fake cures too. The good practitioner keeps tabs on there patient and knows when to call in another specialty.

Maybe, but guys like Thomas Cleary have translated many of the most famous classics. Still its a translation, and who knows what lies untranslated. From what I'm told the oldest stuff tends to be both poetic and cryptic; not a how to manual by any means.

Also note that most of us here are in the philosophical taoist camp; a respect for taoist perspectives and for many of us there meditational systems. So, we're in most respects we're not 'True' Taoists, who'd follow the Taoist religion with there pantheon of gods, religious days, buying Fu's, supporting a Taoist temple, and believing in there versions of heaven and hell, etc., There is an intersection between philosophical and religious, but there's also a wide cavern in beliefs, so much so that a religious taoist, say a monk would in no way consider even respected American Taoist teachers here to be taoists much less the vast majority of people on this board. Until you have decades of experience I'd drop the thought that there is a secret technique that will give you super powers. There is much gold be to found in taoist learning, but not so much krytonite or unobtainium (imo)

I generally choose not to get involved in Free Will debates. But If you believe there is no free will, does that change the way you live and make decisions?

In Kaishan Golden Bell Chi gung they were big into closing with reintegrating chi back into the dan tien, usually with motion similar to what DNB suggests. They even had photos purporting to show 'chi balls' floating around when people practiced and the importance of gathering them back in. Most Chi Gung traditions have some stomach rubbing/circling when they close. That's also putting attention back into the core before moving away.

There's the all important lesson that the friend interacted with the Shaman / Doctor / Practitioner. The diagnosis wasn't made in a vacuum on the basis of a single point. All good healers are holistic, taking into considerations symptoms, body type, and personal temperament. Important factors are lost and possible dangers accompany quickie anecdotal 'cures'.

3 LIFETIMES!!!! I WANT IT NOW. maybe if i play it backwards...

Slower breathing tends to quiet the mind and body. There are some Apple IOS apps (Insight Timer is great) programs that help with lengthening breath. But any kind of metronome will also work well. You don't need to start with a long breath cycle, but as you're meditating its nice to slowly expand it by a few seconds. For training I'd suggest finding a metronome sound online, set it to 60 beats a second. Start out with what comfortable. Keep in breath and out the same timing. When its comfortable add a second or two to the inbreath and out. Stay there til its comfortable, then expand it another second or two. Keep it pleasant and easy for a few sessions then starting slowly, take it a little out of your comfort zone. By learning a long breath sequence, when you 'just' meditate and let go of control your breath will get natural but be long, giving a quieter mind and body. Breathe and breathing patterns are a huge course of study and go very deep. In Ki-aikido we were taught a long one minute cycle. It took years to master , but it was an awesome way to quiet mind and body. Because I haven't practiced it regularly I've lost the ability to do it, but still manage to 'cruise' at a 40 second breath cycle. Again, slow and steady practice wins the race.

A book that might peak your interest would be Glenn Morris (great book, poorly titled) 'Pathnotes of Ninja Grandmaster'. It talks about his journey through gi gung, kundalini and esoteric martial & energy arts. It has chapters of interesting people he's met along the way. It's a good read and has one leg in Internal arts, another in the martial world.

Shirley you jest. My Taoism is so good, Lao Tzu walked by looked at me and said ..nothing. beat that with a stick homeboy

You have exactly one life time to complete the experiment . Lately there was a resurrection of a Joe Blast thread about body weight exercise. Push ups, squats, and comparing them to the full body benefits of sun salutations. All good and no equipment needed. I don't do them often, but kettle ball thrusts have a reputation for being very energetic. The two handed swing involves a dynamic almost sexual pelvis rock that strengthens the core while being a good mix of aerobic and strength move.

Individual differences trumps generic remedies. Exercise helps with anxiety; sometimes we have too much energy and if its not let out physically it gets mental, and that's bad. Milk is yin, but its certainly not for everyone. Know Yourself, is it helping? Theories are nice, but they pale in relation to Knowing Yourself. Does your body process the milk and grains well? Do you really feel better afterwards or sluggish? How's your digestion? You are your own great scientific experiment. Find out what you need, keep a journal, you are unique, don't assume..

While you shouldn't reduce a person to just a single label, part of what this kid is, is an anal retentive bully who craves attention. You might be able to change the situation by giving the kid what he really wants. Attention. Just noticing him, talking to him a bit during the day, asking his opinion on something. It's not about befriending the jerk, but about recognizing a deep need in him. And ultimately even as an acquaintance, you'd be a good influence. Maybe...(?)

Great post. While I'm not interested in who'd win in a meditation fight, I am interested in more descriptions of the similarities and differences you've found in these 3 practices. Thanks and I understand you'd have to explain within the constraints the respective teachers and traditions have for secrecy.

Many of these magicians are masters of mind/body control, training themselves to levels of great strength and other above average abilities like breath holding, and incredible endurance. BUT they're also masters of illusions, which includes a whole set of mechanical and psychological devices. (IMO) Some of the 'impossible' stuff is amazing mind/body control, but the super human/impossible stuff is due to rule 1 of Magic, ie One mans magic is another's engineering. You don't see it, but magicians put in phenomenal amounts of time and money into each trick. There skill is making it look easy. On TV and Utube, you don't see multiple failures, just the successes and then only the very best ones.

I'm reminded of the wild wooly days when UFC/MMA first came out. Those were the days when winner take all and had to fight several matches in a single night, winner bloody and bruised takes all. As I recall you had some hard style karate men who thought there internal power made them too tough for chokes and take downs. It slowed down the chokes and they took massive punishment, but they went down (particularly against the Gracies). The fighting game relies hugely on footwork and body positioning. Without excellent footwork and ground skills The Tough get worn down and choked out slowly or sometimes surprisingly fast. IMO Iron Shirt can help, but an iron shirt mentality at the expense of footwork and ground skills leads to particularly ugly defeats. One of the old champions Liddell who had a soft/hard look to him, was reputed to do chi gung.

This topic is a good one and it was mixed up with a Roman Catholic thread. To wit: Stosh: How do you think, considering yin and yang as 'forces' sheds light on objective reality? Yes things are defined to exist in part because they have limitations. (if x then not y) But folks group women with lakes and the moon etc etc and there is no "force". Its just a substitute paradigm for "good and bad" . Science has not reached its zenith and pretending a 2300 year old attempt at it was 'true' and everyone since then is deluded,,, well it boggles me! Im sure you already know the ancients of the west also had a similar stage of development with their ideas of elements and virtues and the foundations of reason. Its not like the east stumbled on some unusual jewels nobody else found.It is a stepping stone toward greater civilization thatn these subjects are encountered. .but in the east there was more emphasis on looking inward to the mind rather than outward to a humanlike god. Stosh " I'd answer yin yan theory and even more so 5 element theory is an ideal way to view the world. It allows the mind to come up with real world solutions to real world problems. Its a way of strategic thinking that works well. It's not be chemically correct, but if studied gives a dynamic way of looking at and solving problems.

Again what I was going for was..discussing it with you ain't worth it. The ability to think strategically is a plus, a gift, a way to make better decisions. Its not the only way, but if you think it doesn't make sense- then don't. If one day you want to dive in you could go to a Taoist or Eastern site, you could pick up a good book like 'The Web That Has no Weaver', which does a good job of showing the interconnections of element theory in every day life. Asking about how it relates to balls on planes means (to me) your mind is closed. All I can say is, in every area of my life where I make decisions, knowledge of the 5 element theory acts like a flow chart directing me towards efficient solutions. It as useful and indeed compliments any conscious and unconscious statistical models I make because it leads to dynamic solutions to changing conditions instead of focusing on a static model.

What to you mean WHY?.. It means he's better then all the guys who can only pull 19 ton trucks .

I try to be calm and nice, but there are times I blow up and I'm mean, nasty and verbally vicious; fewer and fewer I think. There are times I'm wrong and apologize, and times I'm right and still apologize. Leaving such negative energy out there does little good. There are times the outburst itself clears the air, establishes borders and while not the best route ends up creating peace. In the martial arts I was taught, not to cling to anger or fear, but not to deny experiencing them either. Emotion repressed is liable to create a tsunami of thought or even physical symptoms later. Be honest, but realize negative emotions hurt oneself too; let'em come then let them go, don't feed or obsess on them.

Yeah, that'll impress the chicks .

oh yeah.