thelerner

Well I've achieved immorality. Its very freeing, no second guessing your self. No worries about conscience. Wait a second. Did you say immorality or immortality?? Never mind.

No, he is a vampire. Last night I was watching National Treasure. Suddenly this bat flies in. I could tell it was an old bat, very old. It flapped around in circles then landed above my chair. It was mesmerized by the movie. I watched silently with it. Finally I couldn't help and broke the silence. "This sucks" I said, "it doesn't make any sense" That bat turned its fangs toward me and slowly shook its head. Then it flew off. Yeah, Cage is a vampire alright and hasn't made a good movie in years. (well I liked Kick Ass though)

Hey Joe, Good free guided meditations sites from Itunes Podcasts (all free): (Google for more info) Creative Visualization Relaxation - The Optimal Risk Zone, its 18 minutes and a good productivity guided meditation EnerSanctum Podcast: Episodes 7, 11 & 14, Forrest is trippy, the others are good examples of NLP at work Meditation Station: ZZZZZZ, Evening Inventory Meditation, most of there meditations are very good. Zencast: #99 The Secret Garden, 107, Guided Metta, #48 Surrender to the Now Biaural Featuring Eckhardt Tolle I also like Center of Stillness Meditation (CSM) by Rawn Clark very Taoist and clearing There are others, but thats a good start. For Tao oriented guided meditations I love Minke DeVos Tao Basics available at Silent Grounds (google it). WuDang Evening/Morning Meditation w/ Master Chen - Wudangtao Higher Performance Mind series by Anna Wise Consciousness Arts Bliss Trip series particularly Gifts of the Earth Ed Fleischman's Longevity meditation is great, but hard to find. Michael

Oh, just shut up all of you or I'll sue everyone for taking up electricity, board space and my semi valuable time

We will be poorer for it. I hope you at least check in with us every now and then. Your experience and insight is appreciated. The majority of time, the majority sees what you write and silently agrees. Don't let a more vocal minority dissuade you. Sometimes we all howl at the wind. Don't be a stranger. Sincerely Michael edit Let me add that IMO Scotty did not mean to be rude to you. I understand why you'd take it that way. He was stating his opinion, whereas you (like most teachers) are intouch with facts. He did not mean to be insulting, he just lacks your wider perspective and personal knowledge in regards to Kunlun and Yi Gong teacher. And thats why teachers, like you, are needed here. We have opinions and bias's whereas teachers have experience and perspective that we need to learn.

Wait a sec, are you the poster who said Bugs Bunny was a better series then Avatar, the last Airbender?? If so I remove my recommendation

Thats a good piece of writing. I say make Sinfest the moderator of TTC. We'll see if such absolute power corrupts him Consult the TTC You want answers? I think I'm entitled to. *You want answers?* *I want the truth!* *You can't handle the truth!*

Makes sense. Lower calorie, higher nutrient eating is one of the few ways researchers have found to consistently extend the life span. Eat less, eat better is a good mantra. Not that I'm currently practicing it, but I certainly should.

Still here infront of computer. I left, did stuff, now I'm back infront of my computer. Keep it simple man, too much philosophy and you walk into walls.

I don't know. I'm always suspicious of normal. XieJie who's 'happy, greedy, angry, deluded bum', seems more 'normal' to me. .

I wouldn't say stunned since most people were aware he had cancer and received transplants etc. More saddened. Why don't we mourn more for the dying children? Cause it doesn't do them any good. Not a whit. It may make mourner feel better, release some endorphins maybe, but it changes nothing, absolutely nothing. I'd suggest no outrage, no mourning, no telling people what they should or shouldn't do, just help, even if its in some small way. I highly recommend Heifer.org Giving a family a flock of chickens and they have food, and income, and hopefully other chickens to share with the community. Its going to differ with each community but real lasting change has to come from within, but maybe we can supply raw materials that help.

Agreed. I have my problems with what I consider his over topic'ing, but its way off base to prescribe any racist motives to what he writes. Michael

I'd add its probably better to say who we think We are rather then passive aggressively call out others. Thats an ironic statement because its probably defines the kind of 'troll' I am! Speaking of which here is a troll guide: Re: The definitive guide to Trolls Part 2... ----Humorous descriptions of various troll types---- THE MAJOR BREEDS The Vulgar Troll. These, the crudest of all trolls, make no attempt to hide their species. Often, they make racist comments, or they may post porn and other spam. Vulgars usually confine their comments merely to primitive, profane, off-topic observations. When you log into the Really Profound Serious Philosophical Discussions board and see the post, "I smell my farts," you've spotted the Vulgar Troll. Other species of troll sometimes revert to this form when cornered. The Deceptive or "Classic" Troll. More sophisticated but often easily identified and exposed, the Classic Troll gratifies his ego by pretending to be someone or something he or she is not. Classics make up elaborate stories about themselves, sometimes weaving some amounts of truth into their lies. As a web of lies is difficult to build with consistency, however, Classics are often "outed" by other forumites. When this happens, Classic Trolls have a bag of tricks to which they turn: – Classic Troll Tactic Number 1: If the heat gets too much for you, claim it was all "a joke." In this way you can excuse any and all deceit by claiming people just weren't smart enough to "get" the humor of it. – Classic Troll Tactic Number 2: Create another account, and log on pretending to be someone else, in order to show support for the Troll in Question (TiQ). These puppet accounts sometimes claim to be disinterested third parties. At other times they pretend to be "friends" of the TiQ. – Classic Troll Tactic Number 3: When your lies paint you into a corner, claim that your little brother, or some unnamed friend, has commandeered your account and made you look foolish. This technique can also be applied in claiming that the puppet account(s) you created may not, in fact, be disinterested third parties or friends, but that they are your relatives ("little brother" is most common) only trying to help support you. – Classic Troll Tactic Number 4: When nothing else works, claim that now, finally, you're telling the truth about all the lies you told before. Make up a fresh set of lies, and throw yourself on the mercy of the forumites. – Classic Troll Tactic Number 5: When all else fails, claim to be leaving forever. Trolls who claim they are leaving never do, of course; you can bet that anyone who proclaims, "I'm never coming back here," will most certainly at least check back for responses, and probably will not be able to resist posting again. – Classic Troll Tactic Number 6: Have a tantrum. When all their other tricks are exhausted, Classic Trolls will become angry and start shouting. Often they revert to Vulgar Trolls when this happens. – Classic Troll Tactic Number 7: The insincere apology. Similar to Tactic 4, this involves pretending to repent for one's trolling and is accompanied often by great melodrama. Insincere troll apologists hope that they'll be forgiven if only they act disgusted enough with their own behavior. The Contrarian Troll. A sophisticated breed, Contrarian Trolls frequent boards whose predominant opinions are contrary to their own. A forum dominated by those who support firearms and knife rights, for example, will invariably be visited by Contrarian Trolls espousing their beliefs in the benefits of gun control. It is important to distinguish between dissenters and actual Contrarian Trolls, however; the Contrarian is not categorized as a troll because of his or her dissenting opinions, but due to the manner in which he or she behaves: – Contrarian Warning Sign Number One: The most important indicator of a poster's Contrarian Troll status is his constant use of subtle and not-so-subtle insults, a technique intended to make people angry. Contrarians will resist the urge to be insulting at first, but as their post count increases, they become more and more abusive of those with whom they disagree. Most often they initiate the insults in the course of what has been a civil, if heated, debate to that point. – Contrarian Warning Sign Number Two: Constant references to the forum membership as monolithic. "You guys are all just [descriptor]." "You're a lynch mob." "You all just want to ridicule anyone who disagrees with you." – Contrarian Warning Sign Number Three: Intellectual dishonesty. This is only a mild indicator that is not limited to trolls, but Contrarians display it to a high degree. They will lie about things they've said, pull posts out of context in a manner that changes their meanings significantly, and generally ignore any points for which they have no ready answers. – Contrarian Warning Sign Number Four: Accusing the accusers. When confronted with their trolling, trolls immediately respond that it is the accusers who are trolls (see Natural Predators below). Often the Contrarian will single out his most vocal opponent and claim that while he can respect his other opponents, this one in particular is beneath his notice. – Contrarian Warning Sign Number Five: Attempts to condescend. The Contrarian will seek refuge in condescending remarks that repeatedly scorn his or her critics as beneath notice – all the while continuing to respond to them. – Contrarian Warning Sign Number Six: One distinctive mark of Contrarian Trolls is that every thread in which they dissent quickly devolves into a debate about who is trolling whom. In the course of such a debate the Contrarian will display many of the other Warning Signs mentioned above. The YerATroll. YerATrolls are those whining forumites who devote a tremendous amount of time and energy complaining about the tremendous amount of time an energy expended by Troll Bashers and Angry Forumites on the practice of troll-hunting. A self-righteous and hypocritical breed, YerATrolls spend all their time pointing fingers at everyone but trolls, petulantly demanding that their opinions be granted the significance the YerATroll believes they deserve. YerATrolls often start threads excoriating others for troll-hunting, all the while completely oblivious to the fact that they're engaging in trolling by picking fights with everyone else. One of the most ill-tempered of troll species, YerATrolls are characterized by a childish need for attention disguised as cynical nobility and pretensions of being "above it all." The Agenda Troll. Agenda trolls are those participants who join a forum specifically to pursue an agenda of their own – often a feud or grudge with another member, or perhaps a dispute with some party not participating in that forum. When a flame war erupts on another board, for example, Agenda Trolls will follow their opponents to other forums in order to continue the spat. – Some Agenda Trolls are subject-matter oriented. An Agenda Troll who thinks Self-Defense Instructor X is a fraud, or who feels he has been ripped off or otherwise dealt with unfairly by Instructor X, will visit forums devoted to self-defense and martial arts in order to spread his or her negative opinion of Instructor X. – Agenda Trolls may also be of the milder Spam Agenda subspecies; these are Trolls who join a board specifically to advertise some venture of their own. They are not often troublesome, though their shameless plugging is met with varying degrees of irritation. The Sophist Troll. Sophist Trolls, or "philotrolls," fancy themselves Enlightened Philosophers or Learned Experts of the highest order. Often well educated, Philotrolls are capable of speaking intelligently on a number of topics, and when the spirit moves them they can be worthwhile forum participants. Unfortunately, Sophist Trolls are an extremely hostile and intolerant species. When confronted by opinions with which they do not agree – particularly when they do not see any means of successfully arguing their contrary views – Sophists resort (repeatedly) to a variety of intellectually dishonest tactics. Most often, this is characterized by an overly snide, condescending, patronizing attitude. Philotrolls consider anyone with whom they do not agree to be "immature," and are fond of quoting that old saw that "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing." When cornered they are quick to resort to personal attacks. A philotroll's bag of rhetorical tricks includes a variety of transparent ploys, such as willfully misinterpreting the opponent's words, committing Straw Man fallacies, accusing his or her opponents of engaging in the very tactics used by the philotroll, and so forth. When engaging in their sophistry, philotrolls are among the most hypocritical and aggravating of trollkind. The Affected Profundity Troll. A mutant subspecies of Sophist Trolls, Affected Profundity Trolls post endless pages of pretentious drivel that is intended to appear wise, but which generally makes little sense (if any). Affected Profundity Trolls enjoy asking themselves questions, sometimes answering them and sometimes leaving them hanging, for they believe this looks intelligent and lends an aura of mystery to their incoherent ramblings. Affected Profundity Trolls aspire to become Sophist Trolls, but lack the intelligence necessary to make the leap. The Don King Troll. Related to Affected Profundity Trolls, Don King Trolls spout gibberish in the hope that they'll either bore or confuse to death those with whom they disagree. The average Don King Troll is "a pursuitist who gromulates his adversarial computerists with height defining formulations to the disinterestingest adjunct." The Artistic Troll. A higher species of Classic Troll, Artistic Trolls are intelligent individuals who understand the subtle art of trolling, and who do what they do specifically to make others look foolish. Often employing the techniques of Deceptive Trolls, Artistics will string forumites along until some point in time designated by their own desires, at which point they will reveal the ploy, admit that it was a ploy, and laugh at everyone for being stupid enough to fall for it. Artistic Trolls delight in sowing discord, but do it in a highly developed and fully aware manner. They do not care if they are despised, and do not seek the approval of forum participants. Chaos is their only goal, and preferably chaos with a humorous bent to it. Without a doubt, this is the most dangerous species. The Bitter Troll. Bitter Trolls are a curious cross-species. They can be trolls of any breed in their larval stages, but become Bitters after their previous activities are seen for what they were. What sets these trolls apart from other classifications is their behavior after they have been spotted and labeled as trolls. Angry, frustrated, and resentful about being "outed," the Bitter Troll will wage a campaign of indignant complaints intended to focus attention away from the troll and on whomever is responsible for identifying the creature. Often, a troll mutates into a Bitter just prior to becoming a Vulgar. The Bustr. Bustrs are obsessive Bitters by whom you could practically set your watch. A Bustr never forgets, never forgives, and holds a grudge until the day it dies. Also a variant of Agenda trolls, Bustrs typically move from forum to forum complaining about the objects of their ire, often cutting and pasting age-old diatribes that have little meaning to most of their audiences. Most Bustrs are relatively incoherent, though a few of the more lucid ones are potentially dangerous stalkers. The Mutt. Alternatively known as Dogs or Yapping Dogs. Mutts are pack animals characterized by their loud barking – vociferous, repetitive, usually ignorant and irrational criticism of anything and anyone they do not like. Mutts frequently become obsessed with a few or even a single poster with whom they disagree, often for purely personal reasons. Like a dog gnawing at a bone, the Mutt will attack the object of its ire over and over again, making a fool of itself in the eyes of those who understand such childish behavior for what it is. Often one Mutt in a group of Yapping Dogs will act as the alpha of the pack, while the others chime in to voice their mindless (but loud) support for their leader's opinions. The Holy Misroller (HM). Holy Misrollers are those online forum participants who give Christians (or other religious adherents) a bad name. The HM believes himself or herself to be a Christian (etc.) and will generally tell anyone who'll listen about his or her faith in God and in Jesus. At the same time, however, the HM will display decidedly un-Christian behavior, frequently making an *** out of him- or herself. The HM is often characterized by a great deal of anger and hostility. The breed tends to lash out at anyone and anything not in keeping with its incorrectly narrow worldview. The saddest part about HMs is that they do not truly understand Christianity at all. The Marketing Genius. A Marketing Genius is absolutely convinced that you are profiting from your participation in an Internet forum. If you have a link or a graphic block in you signature, the Marketing Genius just knows that this is your subtle attempt to assert your hypnotic powers on other bulletin board participants, luring them with the siren song of your complex and inscrutable advertising of your site. It does not matter to the Marketing Genius that forum members have been placing links and pictures in their signatures since the ability to do so was first created. Having never created anything of value themselves, Marketing Geniuses have only their bitter envy and their firm belief that you are a Dot Com Billionaire to motivate and occupy them. The Honorable Nitwit. Honorable Nitwits absolutely love to speak about honor. This breed invokes the concepts of honor, integrity, humility, and other traits straight from the Boy Scout Oath more often than a Klingon warrior on anti-depressants. Honorable nitwits are convinced that everyone around them suffers from a lack of honor – an idea they thoroughly fail to understand in attempting to use its lack to smear others. The Old Warrior. The Old Warrior has been there and done that. He has little time to spare for those who have not been there and done that. The Old Warrior has been there and done that to such an extent, in fact, that he is always right. Anyone who disagrees with him, therefore, is wrong by definition and should shut the hell up. Old Warriors place a very high premium on one's credentials relevant to the subject matter discussed – failing to understand the logical fallacy of appeals to authority. The Forum Cultist. Forum cultists are extremely proud of the incredible Internet communities to which they belong. They pride themselves on the exclusivity of those communities and actually believe that "it can't happen to them" – "it," of course, being their own banishment. Forum cultists place a very high premium on groupthink and generally react to differing opinions with outrage, banning all who dare to speak them. The Pretend-novice: Has an agenda to push but pretends to not to understand arguments against said agenda in order to push the agenda further. By appearing to be a new user, she can get away with combativeness without appearing aggressive or hostile and can always excuse any poor arguments as ignorance or genuine inquiry. (credit: aysiu)

Boom baby. Parties over dude. I'll just lay back and enjoy the benefits of my generation's overspending and negligence. Good luck you Generation X Y and Z'ers. Don't complain too much, you'll have your moment and we'll see if you cuddled cubs do better then us. P.S stay off my lawn and highways

I agree with Cam, both are high level, very impressive teachers. To answer the question: Its all about press releases. Early on Max had Chris T. who was very good at marketing. Also Max's teaching style and demonstrations have a wow factor built in. Some connect to it, it may turn others off.

I am infront of my computer. waiting for it... rats still not enlightened. maybe if I go infront of a mirror?!?

Here is a financial insiders view on what the movement should aim for, but articulated pragmatic goals don't chant well and take a long explanation so they'll be ignored. by Larry Doyle To that end, she asked what three proposals I would put forth to advance this movement and the pursuit of our Sense on Cents virtues of truth, transparency, and integrity. Never one to be bashful when it comes to elevating these virtues, I offered the following: "1. Compel the Wall Street self-regulator FINRA (Financial Industry Regulatory Authority) to open its books and records. The OWS movement and all of America would learn a LOT about the incestuous nature of the relationship between Wall Street and Washington if FINRA were forced to provide real transparency as I have called for so often. Starting in early 2009 and repeatedly since then I have stated unequivocally that FINRA Must Open Its Books and Records. FINRA’s own member firms called for real meaningful transparency from this self-regulatory organization and largely received lip service from FINRA’s board in response. 2. The OWS movement would do America a favor if it called for a thorough exposition of the scam that encompassed the auction-rate securities market. OWS and America have approximately 100 billion reasons to pursue this transparency, that being the approximate dollar value of the ARS which remain frozen in investor accounts. Please recall that ARS were sold as ‘cash surrogates’. 3. Why should OWS and America demand accountability on points 1 and 2? For the very simple reason that Wall Street’s incestuous partners in Washington have largely failed to perform in properly regulating Wall Street despite efforts and overtures made by many individuals and organizations, including the Project on Government Oversight. For more on this front, please access, Sense on Cents/POGO-FINRA. Why might those in Washington fail to pursue their counterparts on Wall Street? Do you think the campaign contributions and other means of support provided by Wall Street for those in Washington on both sides of the aisle may impede our pursuit of transparency? You think? I thank the aforementioned reporter for pointing me in the direction of OpenSecrets.org Center for Responsive Politics, the nation’s premier research group tracking money in U.S. politics and its effect on elections and public policy. Nonpartisan, independent and nonprofit, the organization aims to create a more educated voter, an involved citizenry and a more transparent and responsive government. In short, the Center’s mission is to: Inform citizens about how money in politics affects their lives Empower voters and activists by providing unbiased information Advocate for a transparent and responsive government So let’s check in on a few of our Washington heavyweights and see just how deeply in bed they are with the crowd on Wall Street by referencing Open Secrets.org great work. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) Spencer Bachus (R-AL) Barney Frank (D-MA) Chris Dodd (D-CT) Barack Obama John Boehner (R-OH) Please review these links and see how much and how often Securities and Investment Firms have provided backing for their incestuous partners in Washington. Anybody for meaningful campaign finance reform? How about term limits? What do you say we just start with a little bit of transparency and a healthy dose of the truth? The stench of this incest is overwhelming." I disagree that the stench is overwhelming. Politicians have always needed big bucks to run campaigns. That they take money from corporations should shock no one. Still letting the foxes write the henhouse legislature stinks. I'd also add the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, separating commercial banking and investment banking needs to be put back in place. If there was single action that could be pointed to for causing the housing collapse and world wide recession its the repeal of that act. Personally I think the 99%ers are too off message to accomplish much. They may as well march around the a sports stadium with signs saying the players, coaches, and owners get paid too much. How much good would that do? Now its all about scoring face time, expressing outrage, making political points. Unproductive. A few well placed, well written ads in newspapers explaining what exact steps could and should be taken to reform the system, signed by top economists and respected leaders would do more for the cause then dumping trash inside bank lobbies and marching around with disparate signs.

Hmmnnn, couple places...not sure they'd let you in though... Seriously check out meetup.com . There may have a local 'smart' group you can either connect with or create

This gets to the heart of many arguments I have with Immortals posts. Too often they're agenda driven and all too willing to distort or bias records. Nothing wrong with speculation, but its dangerous when its not presented as such. When far fetched speculation is stated as fact, you begin to build skyscrapers on shaky ground. To me, the pity is the first layer is sound and needs honest analysis. Move too quickly from this ancient city is underwater to must be the alien builders and you scare away honest archaeology.

Tried to read some of it to see if I could get names or organizations that support the hypothesis. Skimming I found Edgar Cayce in 1932, words like Everyone believes .. I must admit I haven't waded through all the videos. I have watched movies and read some sci fi (Gor or John Carter?? novels??) that follow similar theories. Again it seems like someone reads new research about wider diversity in American Indian genes that point to new theories and mix them up heavy speculation, then add there childhood sci fi into the mix. I'm not a geneticist, but I did take a college course in 1940's and 50's Golden Age science fiction (my favorite college course) and many of these ideas have seem to have roots there.

I found the first post of the thread interesting and plausible. But as it went from geometric shapes found under the water to increasingly speculative to 'wasn't that in Conan vs the Atlanteans' I began to be suspicious. Phrases like 'Real scientists accept that there certainly was a civilization on the superswell, only skeptics are in denial' also fuel my suspicion. Generally Real scientists have real names. Fake ones, are known as 'unnamed experts'. I'm always skeptical of round numbers too. 10,500 B.C the battle raged!! Next year will they say 10,501? Building a 6,000 mile underground tunnel is bad for the environment, even if you have unlimited power sources, flying is faster, cheaper, more scenic then blasting billions of tons of rock, water, oil and god knows what. Also, why use rock? What are they, cave men? If you have super tech or alien magic, build out of metal, nice long lasting stainless steel of space age polymer. Maybe you'd do it if you were being hunted by Lemurians but even then it'd be better to fly then risk underground catastrophe. Also with unlimited power, you think the statues would be a little more sophisticated. What the hell? Are those things remnants they couldn't sell? Even aliens wouldn't take them off there hands at half price? Easter Island didn't go extinct, it went broke because of lack of imagination and poor marketing. Something creators of the Battle of 10,500 B.C. have much of. I could be wrong. There are undoubtedly civilizations that were sunk. Maybe there were some advanced ones. But the original writers lose credibility when they come up with random numbers, and sci fi scenarios with somewhat flimsy evidence. My 2 cents.

I like to think of Stillness as every human being's birth rite, always with us, hidden just beneath our thoughts. So close, yet so hard to contact and stay with.

BAM, you are now channeling the worst fundamentalist rhetoric. Militant Atheists are no trade up from Militant Fundamentalists. 'My way or the hell way' is why they're so short sighted and obnoxious and why you tread on the same road. You must also realize (less your a Sith ) such absolute statements are wrong. In this reality many Christians are at peace, indeed many people within all traditions are. Its not necessarily because there religion is particularly right, but because there are elements in it that teach the right things, and its those things good people focus on. I'd add, you quote Eckhart Tolle. I enjoy his works. If you read them you'll know his enemy is the over thinking mind; thoughts that keep us from the present are usually his target. His writings quote Jesus Christ quite a bit. Not because he's Christian, but in this world grab wisdom where you can. It can come from anywhere.

I'd also add, if your not going the monk or nun route, desire isn't bad. Its clinging to desire that causes hurt. To me, clinging leads to the unhappiness and 'bad' karma, not the initial desire. If we can down grade our wants from Must Haves to preferences we'd be happier. We see it clearly in the kid who cries because they must have Rocky road ice cream and any of the other 30 flavors can't stop the unhappiness. Yet as adults we tend to make do the same thing.

You assume wrong, on that point and many others. I could argue both sides, I like history and philosophy. I've have many late night conversations on the subject that leave both sides scrambling for history books. Your side, the dark prejudiced one is much easier, it plays to peoples worst instincts and that always sells. Become 'internet literate', find the worst, ignore the good, repeat it incessantly, feel better about yourself. Real compassion is intolerant of all religions?? Thats crazy. Look up what tolerance means. You're the flip side of all the fundamentalists who preach intolerance to all views but there own. The exact same only flipped around, blood brothers on opposite sides. You're so close to them they'd use your notes to prove how bad everyone else is and feel smugly superior doing it. Ultimately life is about what We do. What we spread, who we help. Spread hate, reap discord and have little less peace. Spread tolerance, increase understanding, have a little more peace. Be careful not to become the thing you hate. I can easily argue both sides. I wonder if you could? How closed minded are you? Very, extremely?? Totally??? Could you put together the opposite of your thesis? Could you find enlightening quotes in the new testament? Could you find and quote enlightened soothing words? Does the good bounce off you and only whats evil stick? I challenge you as an intellectual exercise to find and write a short essay on whats good in Christianity. Starting with Jesus sayings, move on towards the great Christian writers. Its not as easy as tearing things down, real learning has to go beyond the easy context-less quote. But it'll bend your mind; and I wonder if its flexible enough to accept other ideas without breaking. Go for it. I'll be happy to do an assassination job on some other religion or idea that you point me at. That kind of thing is easy. It part and parcel of the human toilet consciousness. Toleration, accepting, forgiveness, being at peace; thats hard.