thelerner

Procurator, are you in China studying directly or is more like the David Shen type students who travel to China for a few weeks a year? Thanks Michael

Easy enough to check out for yourself. Get yourself comfortable, sit with your back straight, let your thoughts settle and stay there for 20 or 30 minutes. If your thoughts keep coming loudly, then try counting breaths 1 to 10 over and over. There are a lot of techniques, but sitting still & letting your thoughts settle is the foundation of most of them. Once the mind gets a bit quieter there should be a sense of peace and clarity for little bits between the 'am I doing this right' 'my nose itches' 'this is soo boring' 'shouldn't I be seeing something' ..etc. Michael P.S. totally different then Lucid Dreaming IMHO. Its about the seeing the reality of your original mind vs enjoying a nonreality sim you've created.

you're posting as often as Cam did A clear sign of ..you know what

I never knew that kind of environmentalism by the permaculture name. Trunk has been doing some good research into Mega productive tiny eco farms and planned communities in harmony. I wonder if he's seen that site? He's shown some amazing links in those regards. Michael

OOoo, Oooo can I get on the soap box now? Thanks here I go: Taoist, Buddhist, whatever. If you can't agree that minimizing suffering is good then you've got a problem. Those seeking ..(enlightenment?!) are in tiny minority, both here and in the East. In the East there's traditions, temples and clearer paths that don't exist here in the West. There's no monastery to walk to, Buddhist or Taoist. Nor are we any of Taoists in the manner any religious taoist would agree. My point??? We want something, we don't want to be suckers or misled, we want to help beginners and learn something valuable and walk a real path. Its harder in the West. But we have advantages too. We ask questions, we try things out, we talk to each other without going to war(mostly). Western teachers tend to synthesis the best of different traditions and hand them to us asking only that we practice. But is synthesis the right way? Do we get handed things too easily? Not practice enough? Kunlun might be a dead end, created by a phony. Thats what we're practicing to find out. Maybe its a faster way to open channels and accomplish completeness. We'll see. There's people on that route and they're leaving crumbs and reports. The truth will be known. Not through argument, but the old fashioned Buddhist way(borrowed by the scientific method). Think it through, without prejudices or bias. We're not going to be on the same path, but hopefully we're heading slowly toward the same destination. The person obsessively screaming insults may be on a higher path, but I can't help but think there negativity is causing them to slide down. Leading by example, with words and actions that reflect a deep practice is where the juice ultimately comes from. leave sweaty soap box to next person, head for beer Michael

I don't think philosophy or dogma is going to lead us where we want to go. Its good to learn, sort out it out, turn it over, but too often its just intellectual. Kudos to those who truly let it influence there lives beyond lip service. So dogmaless practices like Kunlun and simpler practices are getting higher on my todo list and philosophy and its ilk is getting lower. Sit down, hit the position, wait, accept. Carrying that into my daily life feels closer to a solution then most approaches. Here's what I'm chewing on lately. The nearest thing to god within us is the witness. We get carried away w/ our thoughts, emotions, pain..so we become them. But outside the temporary is a part that just sees calmly. Its hard to keep it in focus. Its totally distorted by ego, buts its there. The real work is keep it in the forefront. That can't be done intellectually. Sit down, shut up, hit position, wait, accept..seems the route to me. Well, maybe not hte sit down and shut up part, those always give me trouble. But wait and accept I have a fair chance at. M

dittos, good to see you're alive and online

Silent Grounds has a couple of CD's of guided meditations on breathing techniques. One of them appears to be very boring but is very useful. It just has tones that gradually increase in length. An 8 second tone that goes up 4 second then down. The tones go up to around a 90 second cycled breath. Its nice to have in an MP3 player set to repeat, once a breathing cycle becomes comfortable, you clip it up a notch. The same CD has a 3 cycle breathing patterns. I think the timing goes 2-8-4. Starting at 4 seconds in, 16 second held, 8 out. The sound rises for inhale, flattens out for holding then goes down for the exhale. That tops out at a near 2 minute breathing pattern. In Aikido we'd do a long 45 to 60 second breath cycle during meditation. Holding the breath was considered wrong. But many traditions considered it strengthening. These days I just breath naturally, but because I've worked w/ longer breaths my natural is pretty long. At night when I can't sleep I'll do one breath for every 8 of my sleeping wifes. What kind of breath cycles do people work with? and from which traditions? Michael

Visualization tends to be a very personal thing. There are the good visualizers who visualize as if seeing the object in 3d. The great visualizers who see it exactly even with there eyes open. Then there are the shmoes like me, who can't visualize at all. Yet I'm an avid reader and listen to tons of guided meditations. My 'visualizations' are a combination of auditory and emotional(maybe a fuzzy image). For kunlun I'll do a breath down each arm and leg to 'whiten' them up as I fly on the cloud, then just relax and keeping it going. I don't do it for very long, once I feel calm I stop and do the kunlun position. WYG, I have no idea where you think the people who've started Kunlun think they're great cultivators. I don't think anyones said, Wang Ping is my bitch. I don't think any bum is even on level two. Most people are reporting increased energy and some happy feelings (alright Cam was the exception, but there's always one in every bunch). Personally I report leg twitches, thats all so far, but I've only done it a few weeks. Its an unusual method. I remember people getting there britches all knotted up when people would mention the microcosmic orbit. It'll make you crazy man!! you'll go insane. Hmn for some very energy sensitive people and those who way over due it, it can. But the large majority no problem. Its best to do energy practices under an experienced teacher. Next best is to have access to those more experiences, so its nice that Matra68 and a few other experiences people are here to answer questions. There also other supports. I think people are handling Kunlun just fine. It'll be real interesting to see how they progress once the training wheels are off. Michael

The KiAikido Society in St Louis has a winter misogi outing the first weekend each year. Hard practice (hand to hand and weapons), lots of meditation. Heavy duty old Shinto chants lead by old fashioned iron bells. Next morning dip in a frozen river. Down to our necks, then a few ki-ai's, dip down, then up for more ki-ais. Its a fantastic experience. Michael

Here's a minority view. I don't like the whole idea of gawking at dead bodies. The show came to Chicago a while ago. A close friend liked it, recommended it, even took his kids to see it. But it sits wrong with me. I didn't go. It feels wrong to be entertained looking at cadavers who've had there skins artistically removed. One mans opinion. Michael

So far, I find I am an immortal. Course, if I die, I'll have to revise that What's so great about being an immortal anyway? We all have 24 hours in a day and put on our robes one arm at a time. Michael

An intriguing part of some taoist alchemical practices is the ability to reherse death. In the deeper conscious dream practices there are methods to re-integrate the different soul spirits that would generally separate out at death. Thats more Michael Winns bag. A good place to get other views might be to ask on his site and/or get his Dream CD. Tibetans have there Powa practices too, a similar death practice. I do think its important to live for today, but keep a consciousness of death. I think its important to die well and to calm and together after death. Michael

Sounds like a sensitive young 'man' to me. After the brain surgery he may well be worth pursuing. long as he isn't making that sound m

A lot of scientific debunking is just the love of poking strangers with sticks so you can enjoy the ensuing fight with them. Take Mormonism, there is a religion that can be particularly easy to poke holes in. But then aren't most religions? You can debunk and criticize yourself into a cold cement corner where nothing is sacred. I'm not saying we shouldn't be critical, but there are some sacred cows we should allow to roam free in order to stay sociable. Cause cow tipping can be obnoxious, specially when its yours. Michael

What common mistakes do people make when they first try the system? How much self practice is recommended before playing w/ a partner? What are your success rates and what holds people back from experiencing it? Look forward to the interview. I believe Yoda did some work in this area. Michael

'Enlightenment' to me is looking more and more like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. And I'm old enough to know that rainbows are an optical illusion, they have no end. There may be physical enlightenments I can achieve using physical means to open up energy channels in my body. There may be psychological enlightenments I can achieve allowing me to lose petty desires and feel truly at home in the universe, most of the time. But the big E, fuggetaboutit, at least for me. Michael

I'll head there in a minute. Join me ?

If not now, when? When things are perfect? That will be a long wait my friend. There are pieces of the world that are indeed perfect. Seek'em out and cherish them. There are places in the world we can fix and make closer to whole. Find'em and do the work. Karma (service) yoga is as real and worthwhile as any other. I'm not much a bliss person myself, but I do think the state holds power beyond just feeling good. Michael

No 600 and I don't think she should be allowed in the same room with them after day 50 . Hi Cam, Ultimately if you want to keep high vibes on this thread (which is a really good one) you'd have to move it into your Personal Discussion site where you'd have complete control. Michael

Minke De Vos from Silent Grounds website has an article on her experiences doing a dark room retreat. You can find it at silentgrounds.com or google it. I'm sure it would be a very deep experience, getting through basic fears, intensity of senses, intensified emotions.. If you follow the Universal Tao system, the dark room seems to be a graduate level class, maybe PHD. Go, go and report back Michael

Hmnn, I was just thinking I'd like to go to another seminar in 3 or 4 months. To re-invigorate and get ready for level 2 stuff. So depending on timing and family obligations I'd be in. Michael

Sorry I'll miss it. It would be a great honor to study with you. Yours Michael

You can try a Patti Cake method of balancing before meditation. With your left hand clap your right shoulder twice. Then right hand clapping left shoulder twice. Repeat a few times. Then left hand claps just above right knee twice. Then right hand claps left knee. Repeat a few times. Finally left hand reaches behind you and taps your raised right ankle twice. Then the other side. Repeat a few times. This helps balance the body and the right left brain. You can experiment w/ clapping fairly hard on the shoulders and knees, it helps release tension. keep the clapping hand relaxed. Another physical trick is tottering a little left and right a few times, increasingly slower til you find a good center point. Then doing the same front to back until you feel just centered. Having an experienced meditator or a (yoga,taichi,aikido,feldenkrais...) person look at your posture while meditating is a good idea. Often people don't keep there backs straight enough (my lower back always tends to slouch). Yours Michael

Well said, Matt. Tangentally, I find long term spiritual people turn more androgenous as they age. Glenn Morris mentions that in his first book. Hopefully as we age we drop the Ism's, Asm's and chasms that divide people. Michael