thelerner

I was wondering peoples thoughts on reincarnation. Being a Westerner I don't give it much though, though of after lives it has more proof then say the Western heaven, ie what I consider to be well researched factual books finding young children who remember past lives with details that prove accurate. In some cases even having birth marks that correlated to past life causes of death. Interesting stuff. Course reincarnation isn't the only explanation but its up there. Course reincarnation can seem like the 'prosperity' brand of Christianity, ie God loves you so you're born rich, or conversely you were bad so you're born poor. That sorta belief in rebirth or theology doesn't sit well with me. Guess its because I don't see rich as ethically better or poor as worse (or vice versa). For those who believe in reincarnation what 'sorting' system do you see working? Does the system include rebirth as animal? And what does it say about getting off the 'wheel'? Does getting off mean, silent 'true' death, or getting to be other dimensional godlike beings? What are your thoughts? Personally, I don't know. The logical/material side of me says death is simply an off switch. I kinda hope that there's more, a return of essence with a basking in a certain universal satori joy. Though one doesn't always get what one hopes for.

I hope so. So far, so good with me, but I don't trust the Universe, further then i can throw it.

Patience is a skill most are sadly lacking. Nothing teaches patience quite as well as futility. One's mind either rebels and one is in hell, or accepts, knowing its futile but keeps going til its done.

Earlier Dwai- What if there was nothing other than your Self? For the money ofcourse. I'd be bluffing, but seems to me, if there was nothing other then mySelf, then my bargaining power would be immense. I should be able to get whatever I demanded.

I'd probably turn mastermind terrorist and tell the Universe, if it didn't give me untold riches I'd kill myself, destroying everything.

hmnn, maybe thats why my VCR cassette Series hasn't been doing well, and the 5 1/2 floppies have completely tanked.

If 'we' accept reincarnation- Do 'We' want to come back? What are the alternatives? myself- Here my theology is affected by a movie (What Dreams May Come), which is always a bad sign. If its between, nothingness and reincarnation, I'd roll the dice. I enjoy life, why not try it again. If its between reincarnation and a type of heaven, then its harder. Like the aforementioned movie, I might get tired of heaven, of myself and at some point want to re-experience the world.. might take awhile though.

Let's face it, 'proof' is not a strong point when it comes to the afterlife. Though reincarnation does have some. Yet even there the mechanisms and proofs are a bit sketchy. Plus it leaves open the does it really matter, because if we don't remember our lives and not given a piece of paper what we should do better, then maybe it doesn't matter. Probably this world should be most important focus. Or should it? If we had a fundamentalist twist we could well conclude the afterlife is more important and infinitely longer then our moments on Earth. In the past I thought dreamwork might provide the best avenue towards understanding death or perhaps solidifying the identity in midst of the forces of unconsciousness. Never had much luck in it. Though an afterlife lived out as a lucid dream might be very pleasant. That was a focus in the Movie What Dream Might Come.

Its not so much importance as.. destructive. Nature finds balance.. mankind.. not so much.. we disrupt systems without much notice. Too much and dominoes fall back on us. Still, I'm hopeful. We're smart, technology is an awesome tool. But we need to be careful, set borders and limits on our polluting and intrusions.

It may not be logical, but seems somehow they're closer to me, kin. course if starvation loomed, such sentiment may well be discarded. also. I get the horrible feeling mankind is destroying ecco systems of the earth with knife and fork. maybe his health too.

Yeah I'd been thinking 'eating dolphins' was an exercise in logic vs Socratic method, not that people were actually eating them. I guess we all have to draw our lines somewhere. I don't eat dolphins or primates or parrots because they're all very intelligent. Ofcourse that opens me up to criticism and hypocrisy for eating pigs that show emotion and are quite intelligent. Maybe part of being human is looking down at those who draw their lines lower then yours. All claiming there line is correct. Yet while we all have to eat, we don't have to eat everything. And logical or not, no smart creatures or veal on my plate. And my kudos for those who are vegetarians. Though I don't keep it, it would be seem in most places, not all, to be a more ethical sustainable diet.

I like it, constructively, perhaps more deeper tones buh bummnns, and less of the higher pitched 'ripping' ones.

Yeah, its easy to become 'top heavy' with too much book learning. Not that I have any particular expertise but most commonly thinking less, judging less tend to bring one closer to Tao. In part we sit in emptiness, not for the sitting but to able to keep that state of mind going during our active day. Find a dharma source that connects to you. I like listening to InfiniteSmile.org, for there perspective. I enjoy the writings & talks of Ajahn Brahms. Finding a wisdom source that feels true, listening and letting the truth echo through your day.

back to OP Horse-pucky or the words of Taoist Sages? Here's the information about the book (Publishers Weekly) from "These five Taoist treatises, written from the 7th to the 19th century, offer Chinese sages' thoughts on meditation, "alternative" medicine, body energy, human nature, the martial arts and life and death ("Everyone likes life but not the path of long life. Everyone dislikes death but not the things conducive to death"). The first selection, "Anthology on the Cultivation of Realization," is a vivid assortment of reflections taking up nearly half the book's text; it is long but fascinating. The esoteric "Treatise on Sitting Forgetting" is also a jewel, closing with some fundamental principles of Taoist meditation ("Arrest thoughts as they arise, in order to make your mind peaceful and quiet")" So, what the writer considers BS is from reknown sages. It's done in the classical poetical, typically hard to understand allegory/5 element theory. This stuff is hard to understand. For someone without extensive background it's easily seen as B.S. but with study and long years of practice you might find deep meaning, that matches your own experiential findings. There are easier tomes to start with. Just practicing equanimity, learning to keep a quiet mind, learning to sit in silence.. can be a powerful teacher.

In the Book The Taoist Manual, the writer (Brock Silvers) makes it clear that the DDJ is one amongst 100's of books that a Taoist would study. It just happens to be the most notable one in the West. I could look up some of the ones he suggests as the most important, but probably that bird has flown. When you want to get hardcore into a subject that isn't widespread, you have to be ready to do some travel. At least to a Taoist Monastery, which may be cross country or around the world if you want to get serious. Same with many esoteric arts, you want to get deep, don't expect it handed to you over the internet.

Gain..Loss Disappointment.. Satisfaction The Tao takes these in stride and does not get so attached to them. also we tend to be more bum then Taoist sage here.

Haven't looked at the first pdf, but the worksheet is a nice tool. And that's how I think of the Socratic Method, a useful tool. Even more so when people work together with it, using it for constructing material and not as a hammer.

I have a tiny bit of control. I won't go fishing off the grand banks, or buy fish from there, not shoot any school kids this week and lastly I can bring an umbrella. but your right, while there's near infinite craziness if you look for it, yet day to day, the normal and slightly abnormal stuff is largely within my locus of control. Certainly my reaction to these things are.

Good ideas break down at the extremes.. ie rape, molestation, murder. We're not saints or super human, but even at the extremes, there's a level of taking responsibility that allows you to move on.. past the trauma and regain your life. One of the worst things that can happen to a victim is staying in that mindset. Not necessarily 'forgive and forget' rather 'seek justice and move on.. towards peace and wholeness'.

Back to guided meditations. Here's what I've been playing with lately in the morning. From ENtrance, a meditation that puts you into an inner library. Has you walk around. Look at a book of memories. I find it puts me under very deeply and that in real life when trying to recall something I re-imagined the library and it helped me make the connection. Here is the youtube video- As I often do I create shorter mp3's for ones I like the most. I've done this here, reducing it to 17 minutes which knocks out the wake up at the end. ENtrance is very worthwhile to check out. Here is the short version- Exploring_the_library_of_memory_shortened_from_Entrance.mp3

I was hoping we could have a collection of youtube videos here. Post the video and what you like about it. I'll start. Love this Pangu form. It's Michael Winn's version. I know that there are others, that come with a lineage and transmission. I found this form, wonderfully simple and energetic. Michael explains this version very well. It's can be learned well from a video imo.

Actually I kinda do. Your writing exposes many sides of you. Here's an exercise for you. Re-read your writings as if someone else wrote them. Would they come off as pompous self agrandizing? If I wrote to you, that I'm writing this reply to teach you something very important that you need out of my 'kindness and limitless compassion' wouldn't you think I was bit stuck up, that I thought my farts smelled like roses? That's how you often come off here, sometimes. Getting back on subject I'd say while Chia has been accused of plagiarism, and that his books (12+) are a bit 'pop' culture Daoism practices, that as an introduction they're worthwhile. Probably better as a source to move on from but they're not without value, introducing and presenting many of the major exercises done in esoteric systems. I'd say that such things are best learned with a live teacher, but they're not always around. Without such a resource, I think a person could do worse then using Chia to familiarize themselves with basic concepts and exercises. With a few caveats and cautions with regards to his earliest 'sexuality' exercises, maybe packing as well. GSMaster, you focus on tightening the butt, but could you explain Chia's system of Fusion of the 5 Elements and contrast it with your own thoughts? I doubt you would or could. but I'd welcome it. My thinking is you got to 'tighten the butt' and your mind stopped there.

and yet the reality is, Mantak Chia is not on this 'lowly' site, and is not posting about us.. cause apparently he has better things to do. hmm.. rumor has it he didn't kill any ants today cause he steps around them. It's an awareness thing As I've stated before, I see Chia as a pioneer. Not perfect and didn't get everything right, but he introduced and popularized esoteric 'taoist' energy arts to much of the West, plus sponsored many excellent teachers and for that I give him credit. An old neighbor who went full blown initiate Taoist told me Chia would not be considered a real Taoist. And that's fine, in truth few of us would, yet most would get benefits from learning some of its naturalistic philosophy.

Wish Taomeow was around. She had great expertise on the subject. I don't think it has to cure cancer to be considered a worthwhile art. It teaches flow, balance, extension.. energy movement plus much more if get the right teacher. Great art, with particular benefits for the elderly but has much for people of all ages to learn. There are many studies (google it) on Tai Chi's healing affect, a couple are double blind, but as stated above its hard to tease out the placebo affect. Yet if you hang out with many Tai Chi players its hard not to notice greater flexibility and vitality. Course the same can be said of yoga and there is survivor bias, ie you only see the healthy ones. Not that there's no risk to either, but with a good teacher the benefits far outweigh the risks.