ronp

Hey bums I am drawn to the Wuji Qigong from Master Duan Zhi-Liang. Interested in the differences and/or similarities between Wuji Qigong and Wudang Hun Yuan Qigong? Are they the same thing or? Also would appreciate any recommendations as to DVDs about Wuji Qigong. I have found the following: Qigong for Beginners - Garripoli Traditional Daoist Wuji Qigong - Jiang Jian-ye Primordial Qigong - Michael Winn Wuji Qigong - Daryll Mitchell Qigong Wuji Style - Jeff Primack Wuji Gong - Master Cheng Bingsong Wu Dang Hun Yuan (Primordial) Qigong - Master Yun Xiang Tseng Anyone seen any of the above? Thanks, Ron

Craig, thanks for the in depth reply and reviews and Ya Mu, for the info on Master Jiang Jian-ye! ron

well bums seems that this thread has taken a slightly different direction than i originally intended - which is okay by me - and gives me a chance to rant a bit. as a rank beginner (only two lessons in nei kung - learning four forms) i have no particular axe to grind - since i don't have a "system" or an allegiance or belief in a certain teacher. at any rate, if i did i wouldn't see much use in defending one or denigrating another. as such, my search is driven only by what i am drawn to (expression of beauty through movement within a series of forms that eventually leads to direct experience of and cultivation of chi while producing better health and overall balance). since i live much of the year in france (and don't speak the language so well yet) and i am financially limited, i am at this point going to be relatively dependent upon what little i can learn from DVD's and very little from hands on instruction. after reading thousands of posts on TTB's, I got a feeling of trust from some and not from others - drawn to the opinions of some and not others. at the same time knowing that this counter point of polarities is necessary and useful in pointing me in the right direction. bought the kunlun book - interesting! based on input gleaned from reading vCraigP and Hundun (only via my reading - i don't know either of them), i bought the Shamanic Tiger of Master Wu. High quality production - seems easy to follow - hopefully i can learn something. if not, i still find his presence, energy and movements beautiful to watch. that said, i ask a couple of questions: Craig - forgetting for a moment that you have worked with Michael and know him personally and putting yourself (as much as possible) into the empty mind mindset of a noob (like me) "how would you compare the quality of the video and more importantly the quality of the teaching that comes from within this video of Michaels, to that of the Shamanic Tiger video of your other teacher Master Zhongxian Wu?" Spectrum - "Seeking "WUJI" is at the core here. That is the point. Wuji. Many forms claim wuji, but until you see and feel the psychophysiological state of wuji, it's all smoke and mirrors." keeping in mind my limitations, what or how, in your opinion is the way to "see and feel the psychophysiological state of wuji?" Ape and Sheng and other tao bums - feel free to answer the above as well! i appreciate that each person walks their own path and comes to their conclusions about what is best in their own way. yet i also know that without worst, there is no possibility of best. oh yeah, still looking for any input on Jiang Jian-ye and Master Bingsong. thanks also Spectrum for the links to Master Bing and to 5element and Dcup for the review of Winn. be well ron

hi elemental thanks for the response and the link (although i had already read it). but that is the kind of feedback i'm looking for. any particular reason you choose master cheng's version over the others? be well, ron

Thanks Ya Mu and Ape for responding! Anyone else? Has nobody seen these videos or have any knowledge or personal interaction with any of these teachers or forms? Thanks, Ron

Thanks sheng zhen for your definitions. I am specifically interested in the Wuji qigong as originally developed by Zhang San Feng and taught by or introduced to the West by Master Duan Zhi-Liang. From research I know that it is variously referred to as Wuji Qigong, Primordial Qigong, Wuji Hundun Qigong and (shudder) Qigong for Enlightenment. I know that the Winn is from Master Duan but I understand the video quality and/or sound is poor. The Garripoli's is from Master Duan as well but maybe a bit new agey. Also Daryll Mitchells, Cheng Bingsongs and Jiang Jian-ye's are also from him. And the Wudang Hun Yuan (Primodial) Qigong from Master Yun Xiang Tseng was developed by Master Zhang San Feng but may or may not be the same or different. Two or three of these DVD's are a bit pricey at $50 so I am really looking for anyone that has seen or is familiar with the video DVD's and can recommend one over the other or not. Sorry if i wasn't clear before. Would definitely appreciate any feedback. Be well, Ron

Below are a couple of quotes from the Zuangzi and some commentary from Guo Xiang on the Zuangzi that will perhaps help. Not sure where the last one comes from. ron "The true men of old did not know what it was to love life or to hate death. They did not rejoice in birth, nor strive to put off dissolution. Unconcerned they came and unconcerned they went. That was all. They did not forget whence it was they had sprung, neither did they seek to inquire their return thither. Cheerfully they accepted life, waiting patiently for their restoration (the end). This is what is called not to lead the heart astray from Tao, and not to supplement the natural by human means. Such a one may be called a true man. Such men are free in mind and calm in demeanor." Zuang Zi "Since life and death are each other's companions, why worry about them? All beings are one." Zuang Zi "In Zuang Zi as interpreted by Guo Xiang (d. 312 C.E., credited with the first and most important revision of the Zhuangzi) both life and death were but different states in which all things existed. To life, life is life, but to death, life is death; to life, death is death, but to death, death is life. So whenever life or death is mentioned, people just give out different views from different viewpoints. Since life and death are both states in which all things exist, when living, one should live in composure and, when dying, one should die in composure." In Taoism, life and death are merely two aspects of reality, the unchanging Tao. Death is simply a transformation from being to non-being; from yang to yin.

hey bums anyone know anything (good or bad) about dr. liu dong. he teaches in portland and paris, france. he is teaching a tiger qigong workshop here in l.a. this weekend that i am thinking of attending. i have ordered the shamanic tiger qigong dvd of Master Zhongxian Wu and was looking for a hands on training to complement. since i won't be going anytime soon to study with Master Zhongxian Wu i was thinking this might work out. http://www.linggui.org/ thanks, ron

hi all, i am interested in cultivating a practice. i am new to chi kung, nei kung, kunlun etc., etc., from an experiential viewpoint although not new to energy work or taoism from an intellectual viewpoint. realizing that "book learning" is substantially different from "direct experience" i seek the advice of those that have what i do not. as an aside, i have studied taoism, buddhism, hinduism, shamanism, sufism, zen, gurdjieff, advaita, kashmir tantra, etc. etc. etc., for the past 35 + years. i am most interested in the health and well-being benefits. i am not necessarily interested in martial arts applications or in acquiring any siddhi's (although i am not adverse to either - just not my focus or intention). i am 57 years old and live most of each year in france, but also live in the los angeles area a few months each year as well. i am what i call "retired without an income" which means that when i can find work, i work at whatever i can find. it also means that i have plenty of time to devote to "cultivation" - not a lot of expendable income but always a lot of time. i was recently drawn to nei kung and then through researching that, i stumbled on kunlun. i have the opportunity to work with james borrelli who teaches the nei kung system of master c.k. chu from new york. and then there is the draw of working with this teacher max who i see just announced a new kunlun weekend in los angeles on feb 5,6 and 7. i have ordered the nei kung system book of c.k. chu and the kunlun book of max's - although neither have arrived yet so i really don't have clue one on either - just know that i am interested. and since i will be returning to france at the very beginning of march, time seems to be "of the essence" to get something started. my question for you all is "what is your opinion / recommendation regarding choosing between the two - keeping in mind my interests as described?" i think that they are both substantially different, but this is just what i feel and based only on what i can glean from reading both here and throughout the internet. i have read probably 90 to 99% of all the posts on nei kung and kunlun so i am pretty familiar with those and through them with those of you who have posted on either topic. btw, i have no interest in stirring up any more controversies about kunlun or max - so if your bent is to blast him, the practice, or to protect me from demons or injury - please refrain from answering. i am simply interested in your experience and opinions and why you hold that opinion and hope to get some knowledge that will help in making a better decision. thanks ron

bum, relatively late start - shit i'm not that old am i? mwight, thanks for the suggestion. i'll check out the spring forest qigong - but i was really looking for some hands on teaching. scotty, i'm leaning towards the kunlun for the reason that bum grasshopper posited but doing both is probably not financially feasible now. other than that it would be a stellar way to go! thanks ron

hi to everyone, i'm new to this forum, new to nei kung, kunlun and qi gong but not new to taoism or any other ism for that matter. have already read almost all of the posts on kunlun. seems like a spirited community hope to take some nei kung instruction from jame borrelli here in los angeles. through researching that, i stumbled on you guys and kunlun. ordered the book - have yet to receive it. look forward to more. all be well ron "Perfection is not when there is no more to add, but no more to take away." Antoine St. Exupery

yoda, thanks ! looking forward to more. trunk, thanks, i make flutes, so i had that pic hanging around - somehow seemed appropriate for this forum. mpway and stigweard, thanks for the tea offers, but i am so personally fermented that i like my tea regular please - chai or rooibois the pic of the breast implant does look appetizing though ! be well guys r