Zhongyongdaoist

Call on the spirits of wifi and ask them to improve your reception of other spirits. No I am not joking. In classical magical theory all of modern science can be reframed into a subdivision of the intersection between natural magic mathematical magic. You just drop the dogmatic materialism that is a holdover from the Seventeenth Century revival of Epicureanism and think of the phenomena the same way that Agrippa describes 'Occult Virtues' as deriving from 'formal causes' that are instantiated by the circuits in the hardware and the materials of which they are made. Just as there are spirits of plants and stones, there are spirits of bluetooth and wifi. Make peace with them. It could help your chest pains too.

When you realize that John Dee wrote in the Secretary Hand: Wikipedia on the Secretary Hand do your homework and study it a bit, his handwriting is quit legible. I got so I could read it as fluently as one might read something in Ariel font (clever little joke intended).

Thank you for the link and the explanation. My understanding is that Master Clyman studied with Master Wayson Liao, for whom I have a great deal of respect and was thus a little dismayed by the whole business. Unfortunately, it seems that something otherwise well meaning got out of hand. As for all of the other claims and counter claims, I leave it to others to untangle them, I simply do not have the time.

I'm sorry, but the date on this is March 2014. Chicago Sun-Times policy on its search page says: Stories are available for 30 days on our site. (Bold in the original, ZYD) Today is March 9, 2014, yet searching for things such as Chi Kung Master (copied from the title on the article.) produce no results for articles within the paper. Anything from February 7, 2014 to the present should be available. Try it yourself here: Chicago Sun-Times Search Any explanation?

However, modern and classical sources would classify goetia differently: The modern tendency is to classify Goetic forces as psychological and to view them as projected outward. This goes back to Crowley and his 'initiated interpretation of Ceremonial Magic', an essay which prefaced his own edition of the Goetia. It is Crowley who, in the early Twentieth Century starts the fashion of viewing goetic evocation as 'psychotherapy'. In this regard he is radically at variance with tradition. Israel Regardie, who started his career as Crowley's disciple and advocate refined the relationship in his The Tree of Life. In this work he made an equation with the two principle psychoanalytic schools of the period, the Freudian and the Jungian. The Freudian school was associated with goetic evocation as a means of dealing with 'repressed complexes' which were objectified by being evoked, interpreting evocation etymologically in a way much at variance with its real historical origin. The Jungian school was associated with invocation and with the idea of psychological integration based on the 'invocation' of divine 'archetypes'. The etymology of 'evoke', as a calling out of oneself, is an invention of twentieth century occultists and as I have pointed out elsewhere: Much at variance with the real one: An etymology which I learned from the OED long before Wikipedia was even a glimmer in someones imagination. Something which owes its origin to military magic is hardly likely to be a beginners practice for balancing the psyche is it? Simple, yes. Quicker, probably. Safer, definitely. Why one should practice magic at all, much less Goetic evocation is an interesting question. When I was a kid starting out 50 or so years ago, I simply accepted the view of the neo-magical 'establishment' that ceremonial magic was the spiritual path of the West as Yoga was of the East and proceeded to practice it. The intervening decades have shown that matters are not so simple and that there was a great deal of stuff going on in the background to this, aside from it also being a ridiculous oversimplification. In the case of Crowley's 'Initiated Interpretation . . .', part of the background was an ongoing polemic with A. E. Waite. Waite was very critical of the whole ceremonial magic enterprise and Crowley had to find a way of defending it, thus the 'Initiated Interpretation …' was created. It has no connection with traditional interpretations and is simply the most egregious example of the incursion of reductionism into the magical tradition. Decades later Crowley characterized himself as a complete materialist about the time he wrote it. The texts that are the precursors of what is now called Goetia seem to have been a single text in the Middle Ages and may have been nothing more than a catalog of spirits without any mention of techniques for dealing with them. However the Goetia was used in the Middle Ages, it was not likely to have been a beginning technique, but an advanced one. Sometime in the Sixteenth Century is was combined with several other works to create a work usually called Lemegaton or Lesser Key of Solomon. If I have time I will examine this more closely, but I will suggest now that the reason for this was to act as a set of preliminary practices which one would undertake before proceeding to the Goetia. I will further suggest that there is an even wider context in which the Lemegaton should be interpreted, and that this wider context is Agrippa's Three Books on Occult Philosophy. I have posted elsewhere on the Tao Bums about this and may try to link these posts into the discussion. It is certainly like a tantric practice, but is it a tantric practice for beginners? As for why to practice goetia: If an intelligent, experienced, capable and well grounded practitioner like BaquqKicksAss chooses to investigate and practice Goetia, that is good enough reason for me in and of itself, but beginners are much better off using some of those '10 different ways'. Another very experienced and capable practitioner which we are fortunate enough to have here on the Tao Bums said: a post which I seconded at the time: Unlike Crowley who could not conceal his contempt for traditional accounts, I at least do them the courtesy of trying to understand them before dismissing them. If I have time I will try to bring some of my posts elsewhere over to this thread to explicate my position. Finally, while I don't particularly like the tone of this post, I have spent enough time just getting a few of the necessary points across, I just don't have time for sugar coating it now. I may post more on what I find interesting in Van Dusen, it is interesting enough to be a thread of its own.

This is what the Dream Yoga is all about. Here is a question for you all. Do any of you really understand what it is that you are experiencing when you are 'in the body', that you can really frame any meaningful questions about what it means to be 'out of body'? The question is rhetorical and an invitation to self examination, to ask yourself what you believe and why you believe what you believe, about your being right now. The only important answer is your own. Don't bug me about it.

Nungali, Thank you for posting the Van Dusen link. There were some interesting aspects to Van Dusens observations. What many people reading it would not recognize however, is the extant to which Swedenborg's ideas are identical to and probably indebted to the tradition of the Occult Philosophy. Compare Van Dusen's account of Swedenborg's cosmos: Wilson Van Dusen, 'The Presence Of Spirits In Madness; A Confirmation of Swedenborg in Recent Empirical Findings', p.8-9 With that of Agrippa writing several centuries earlier: Many more examples of similarities could easily found. You'll find an interesting historical account from antiquity to the nineteenth-century in A. O. Lovejoys's The Great Chain of Being: A. O. Lovejoy, The Great Chain of Being at Barnes & Noble

You're certainly welcome. I am glad that you appreciate them.

Now for some serious consideration: Nothing, Nungali is and is not correct: Nothing, I presume. He was referring to their origins ... but they are okay now: is correct, but there is more to it than this. Maybe they got 'lifted up' ... on sepulchers : partially correct, tomb of Christian Rosenkreutz actually, by way of the Formula of the Enterer, 'Z' what I mean? (for those who lack the necessary initiatory savvy, its double entendre time, 'Z' = see, as in 'see what I mean', but also a reference the Golden Dawn 'Z' documents.) I hope to post something more serious on this. Here is the more serious consideration and I apologize for it being a discussion in a Chinese context by observing, that I have already written this and don't have time right now to create a whole new discussion. Now to provide some context, a few years ago a wrote a 30+ page monograph titled 'The 金光神咒: Thunder Magic Incantation or Golden Light Invocation?' The title of its first section is 'A tale of Two Translations' one of which has received some attention here on the Tao Bums: There are some points of interest in the subsequent discussion, there is also an interesting discussion here: Dan Tian and Daoist Mantras The other translation is: It started out as a comparison of the Chinese text with these two translation, but was eventually expanded to include a translation by Jerry Alan Johnson. At one point I offer my own version of a translation. One of the things which I emphasize throughout the discussion is the importance of context for understanding and thus translating the original. In my conclusion I examine the widest context, that of Daoist religious soteriology, after discussing the Divine Golden Light Incantation's relevance to the Rite of Cosmic Renewal, I continue: Which is, except for a few appendices, the conclusion of the study. The study is not finished though I would say about 95% done, so it is not available for general readership. I hope to finish it up in a few months. Obviously the above is in a Daoist context, but I believe that it is absolutely applicable to the Western Magical context also. More if I have time.

Good, I'm glad to hear that. I hope you are still engaged in a coverup, Magicians shouldn't let such things be widely known. 'One Goetic Love Goddess to rule them all . . .' For those who may be interested serious responses to some of the above are in the works. I just noticed, I am glad to see that you are not a spirit of 'gluteny' Edit: added comment about 'gluteny'

Just a few quick notes: Glad you appreciate it. I did try to warn everyone. Check out my Lobby Check-in: Under the heading: Hello, they tell me I can do stand-up... You will find: Most of the time I will post serious answers to important issues and so most people have no idea what an amusing character I really am, but every once in a while I do get playful. Nothing, Nungali is and is not correct: Nothing, I presume. He was referring to their origins ... but they are okay now: is correct, but there is more to it than this. Maybe they got 'lifted up' ... on sepulchers : partially correct, tomb of Christian Rosenkreutz actually, by way of the Formula of the Enterer, 'Z' what I mean? (for those who lack the necessary initiatory savvy, its double entendre time, 'Z' = see, as in 'see what I mean', but also a reference the Golden Dawn 'Z' documents.) I hope to post something more serious on this. Finally, last but surely not least: Let's hear a rousing chorus of 'Happy Birthday' for our favorite Goetic love Goddess: There, are we happy now? (I hate these things, but they come under the heading of 'Necessary Evils'.)

Oh, no good reason. A phrase which I chose to spill over from double entendre into triple and quadruple, and as for gains they are mostly ill-gotten. At its absolute 'goodest', maybe they can become the equivalent of Dharma protectors, some of whom are very unsavory in their origins, but it is a bigger subject than I have time for now, though I will try to get back to it if I can. Right now I am just kind of having fun with it. You Pisces are all alike. From what I have found, many seem to think that they are stronger/better at getting things done since they are demons. I mean even when I tell folks some $10 incense would work just as well for their particular project (sometimes that really is the case): This is so totally true, but I would say rather you don't call on the unibomber to build a shed. Even the one he lived in was not much. There are so many beautiful and lovely ways to get what one wants through magic, but magic is also so much more than that. In most peoples eyes yes, but as I said above it so much more than that. traveling around the world just to pick up a few souvenirs: While buying them from the local equivalent of the mafia.

If we don't watch out people will even go back to the ever so chic French spelling, Goeçia. It will be the end of civilization as we know it. I don't necessarily object to ending civilization as we know it, but I don't think this is the way. Also about Vassago, Waite does say that 'he is by nature good' in The Book of Ceremonial Magic. He must have fallen in with some rowdy teddy boys and been arrested in a sweep. Though Waite does list two seals for him, one for white magic, maybe he has an evil twin. Maybe he only thinks he has one. Now about Bune . . . He is associated with wealth you know. Though the weird stuff about sepulchers would give me pause for thought.

As a side note, Vassago owes a lot of his popularity to A. E. Waite, who uses him in discussions of vision in the crystal in both The Occult Sciences and the Complete Manual of Occult Divination. The method which Paul Huson outlines and the blogger mentions is based on Waite: Who would have thought! Boosterism sometimes comes from strange directions. And lest we forget the perfect complement to Goetia's new found popularity: I understand they are good for Cellulite, curing or getting depends on how much you sacrifice.

I thought everyone knew that Jimmy Page was the Rock Star of Goetia. He even printed his own edition of Crowley's version: Rare 'Red Goetia" Published by Equinox Books A bargain at a mere $666.00 US! Sorry if you wanted it, you missed it.

As a quick note: There are several types of Chinese Astrology. The Books of Derek Walters are good: Derek Walters Books on Amazon and this site: Delemme Chinese and Western Astrology They have Chinese and Western astrology programs, a book for learning Chinese astrology and other things. Trial versions of the software can be downloaded and while their interfaces leave a something to be desired, they do get the job done. I will post more later if I have the time.

Gurdjieff is simply simply restating ideas at least as old as the Stoics. They are like most ideas both correct and incorrect as far as they go . . . Steve has the right idea, it might be better stated, we are all immortal, we will experience birth, we will experience death and we will do it over and over again until . . . and this is where Nungali takes over: The opinions of little Eddie Alexander whom Nungali then quotes can be satisfactorily ignored. After all, Gurdgieff is rumored to have said that little Eddie was too clever for his own good. Gurdgieff may have been also. I would say that our body is to 'that which survives' as our shadow is to our body, and we are like people who are so fascinated with the shadow that we forget ourselves and watch it all the time. When the sun goes down and the shadow vanishes we think that we have vanished. When the sun reappears and we see that shadow again we believe ourselves reborn. That which survives is that which casts the shadow, and our bodies and our lives here are just the shadow of that which survives. It is not necessary to download 'us' into 'that which survives' since that which survives is already everything that are are, have been or ever will be and more. Rewiring involves stopping being obsessed with the shadow and entering into the fullness of 'that which survives' and can be achieved in a variety of ways. What I have described here is better described in the language of mathematics, but I don't have time to do that now. Its relevance was demonstrated by Special Relativity and especially Minkowski's reformulation of Special Relativity in terms of four dimensional Space/Time. Simply put our bodies, which we confuse with our 'selves' are but the shadows of a being that exists in at least four dimensions, but we happily chase our shadows, like dogs chase their tails. In some ways what I have described is like Plato's Allegory of the Cave, it uses similar language and images. I suppose the most contemporary statement would be that we are like someone who is so wrapped up in a virtual reality video game, that they have forgotten that it is a game and that there is a 'reality' outside of those goggles and headphones. That's my take on the business anyway.

Time to change the channel on that one. Anyone for reruns of 'I Love Lucy'?

On a more serious side note ('serious' side notes must be in a minor key), since you quote Poe's 'Raven': I believe that there is a theme to the poem, which emerges at its start and is affirmed at its end: Historically aspects of the poem can be traced to Burger's famous ballad Lenore: Wikipedia on Gottfried August Burger's Lenore and note that in 'Eleonora', Poe has the same theme, but reverses the gender roles: Edgar Allan Poe, Eleonora But I have further thought that it and the whole of Poe's work should be considered in the light of his 'Sonnet: to Science', which since it is short, I will quote entire: As part of the Romanticist protest against the 'scientific reductionism' which then as now both attempted to crush spirituality, with its refrain of 'tis this and nothing more' and out from whose shadow even to this day our souls have hardly been lifted. The Gothic horror of Poe's work may be seen as an attempted reminder, and a ghostly one at that, that: than the pseudo-rationalism of reductionist materialism would allow us to believe. As a purely personal note, definitely in a minor key, one of the great loves of my life was named Lenore, her father having been a big fan of Poe.

With apologies to Ovid and Crowley and of course Nungali- My Mars in Centaur made me do it. All done to the delightful cadences of my favorite Rossini overture. Got to love those magpies! Now you may continue.

Wikipedia: http://Utsuro Bune

Lest we forget: Plant Cannibals and other happy thoughts

Watching the back and forth nature of this thread has reminded me of why I decided to take Platonism as a fundamental worldview circa 1980. None of these issues are particularly problematic for me and I am able to assimilate into a Platonic framework everything that is valuable in the views expressed and to weed out what is the result of conscious or unconscious ontological and religious commitments. I wish that I had more time to post on this subject, then people would have the chance to realize what I mean by what I have just said.

The above is in reference to this: The above is the 'mystical' type of truth. Below is the 'magical' type of truth: I just noticed this. Since idiot_stimpy PM'ed me about this, I am already preparing a reply of sorts. I hope to have it up shortly.

Brian, Overall very good work in your posts here. Thank you for taking the time for them.