sean

I think if Ayn Rand had just meditated every day, done some taichi, a little yoga, she could have smoothed out her philosophy and had a groovier version of the "Virtue of Selfishness". Anyway, I think we are in a new aeon, or whatever you want to call it, and the idea that any kind of literal selflessness logically exists or is virtuous or even desirable is best left to the stodgy religious folks. Just follow your bliss, the most reliable compass you have for waking up IMO, and as a by product it tends to do more to for others anyway, so win-win.

gx-NLPH8JeM I love Lezlie's memes.

Try reading at least one article a day, especially if you are a despair-news junkie like the rest of the world. Guaranteed to brighten your day. And if you are too busy, just take a quick gander at those flufy little clouds in the first link and you will start to feel lighter without even having to read an article. http://www.goodnewsnow.com/ http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/ http://www.goodnewsbroadcast.com/ Sean

Hey freeform, maybe you have some spyware or adware or something. Sometimes that messes with browsers. Try installing and running these programs and see if that helps: http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/ http://www.safer-networking.org/ Personally I run both of these once a month and am always catching little bugs and goop in my machine. Sean

Like I said, I see everything as a manifestation of chi. Inside and outside. Taoist cosmology in particular deeply associates the interior and exterior. It also places a unique emphasis on the interior, along with most wisdom traditions. Frankly I believe that anything is possible. In fact the funny thing about infinity is, anything you imagine, will eventually happen. Infinity contains everything imaginable. Maybe cultivating and/or witnessing external displays of chi power are an expression of your path to awakening the Tao. I am just speaking for myself when I say it's not a draw for me. External chi fireworks are just personally mundane to me. First, because I would rather spend my time with enlightened teachers than powerful magicians. Second, because I have enough faith in myself and my path as it is. Third, because being able to do roundhouse chi kicks says nothing to me about a person's level of awakening. Fourth, because 100% of the cases of so-called chi power I've looked into have panned out as delusion or deliberate trickery. ... I could probably go on. Your latter point on internal tingles is different. Using your internal senses to navigate spiritual cultivation does not have the same validity problems as saying someone held your arm at a wierd angle and you couldn't move it so therefore they have highly developed chi. This is where science is helpful in sorting out the different classes of validity claims. I think my main point is that, on the path to awaken to the Tao, chi is subtle energy, but subtle doesn't mean closer to Truth. The most subtle phenomenon is as close to Truth as the most dense. Can you give me an example of the latter type of text? Just curious where you are coming from here. Sean

Subtle energy is part of a rich cosmology on a path to awakening to the truth of the Tao. Everything is an "actual manifestation of chi" because we are all part of the same energetic field. When people get into these discussions about magic tricks I'm sorry I just have to shake my head. For me the concept of chi within the Taoist worldview has as much relevance to unbendable arms, electric tingles and shooting fireballs as it does with farting the alphabet. Go watch a live childbirth for the most amazing manifestation of chi! I'm not trying to dismiss the conversation completely, it's interesting on some level I guess, but I just hope it's in the right perspective. The real Taoist classics are about cultivating qualities so ordinary they are almost completely neglected.

Interesting timing, I got this in my inbox today - International Evolutionary Enlightenment Course.

I really prefer this view. I was raised Catholic though and I'm an Enneagram Four to make matters worse so I have this hard to shake sense that I am entitled to at least a partially tragic worldview.

Via Science Daily via Corpus Mmothra Beauty And The Brain The phrase "easy on the eyes" may hit closer to the mark than we suspected. Experiments led by Piotr Winkielman, of the University of California, San Diego, and published in the current issue of Psychological Science, suggest that judgments of attractiveness depend on mental processing ease, or being "easy on the mind." "What you like is a function of what your mind has been trained on," Winkielman said. "A stimulus becomes attractive if it falls into the average of what you've seen and is therefore simple for your brain to process. In our experiments, we show that we can make an arbitrary pattern likeable just by preparing the mind to recognize it quickly." ... "It seems you don't need to postulate an unconscious calculator of mate value or any other 'programmed-brain' argument to explain why prototypical images are more attractive," Winkielman said. "The mental mechanism appears to be extremely simple: facilitate processing of certain objects and they ring a louder bell. "This parsimonious explanation," he said, "accounts for cultural differences in beauty -- and historical differences in beauty as well -- because beauty basically depends on what you've been exposed to and what is therefore easy on your mind." (read the full article)

I hope so!! I really do. I've read a little too much St John of the Cross for my own good and so I have this nagging fear that a tragically lonesome dark night is a prereq. to awakening. If it is, so be it. I'll take it like a man as best I can. But my hope is that the various Yogic practices do help refine and purify a vehicle more resonant with and more suited to embodying Enlightenment. Then maybe the post-awakening blues are not experienced quite so morbidly. Or maybe you can even just expand in bliss until "you" dissolve! That'd be sweet. Uggh... I dunno... what the hell do I know anyway?

On a purely physiological level, I read somewhere that the power of amaroli lies in the fact that you are sharing information with your nose and brain about your diet, how food is being processed, etc ... essentially creating a vital information feedback loop that helps your body refine it's intuitions on what foods to eat more of, which to avoid, that maybe you need more water, sleep, etc, etc, etc. So maybe just sniffing transmits a decent chunk of this information. I'm curious how much more bang for your buck you get from drinking, if there is a lot more information embedded in the taste ... if it's true that it's full of vitamins/minerals ... and if it has worthwhile subtle energetic qualities.

Always wanted to check this one out. Heard good things. There is a companion video too you know.

Seriously!

freeform, thanks for the tip on that heel drop, I'll try that. And that soloflex looks cool, I wonder if we can get Plato in here for a word on that. Todd, I haven't picked that book up yet. I'm really looking forward to it, I just want to get a couple books off my plate first before I start a new one. I think my shaking practice is unearthing a little healing roller coaster for me as well. The first few days I felt fantastic and had an incredible release in my solar plexus as I was going to sleep. But then today I slept soo long and was still really groggy and melancholy. Now, later in the evening I am feeling much better again though. I believe this is a powerful practice. Really blissful in the moment. Also simple and spontaneous. My four favorite qualities in a practice. Ian, I plan on giving Fries a thorough study. I loved Visual Magick. And I want to get into Living Midnight, glad to hear a bum endorsement ... also his Celtic book is appealing to me and maybe his Norse material as well. Sean

Great subject, Enlightenment and Evolution! It's another angle on the ongoing Emptiness and Form conversation. I think a distinction David Deida makes between what he calls Function, Flow and Glow is relevant here. Function is about getting healthy in mind, body, emotion and spirit for the sake of being relatively productive in the context you find yourself in. Flow is about polishing the dirt off of the lens of your form so that the Light of Formless can shine through. Glow is, basically, the ultimate reality of Enlightenment, that "you" is a story, all there is and ever was is pure Light. These distinctions are useful on a few levels. * They can be seen as stages in life, like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. First we must learn to Function - to walk, speak, read, write, hold a job, to operate in society. When we have our base, we can relax a bit and learn to Flow, to let Love and Art shine through us. Ultimately we are graced with Glow when we discover the reality of our True Nature through Awakening. * They can be used to tease out the braid of various spiritual practices or approaches that are available in any moment. For example, therapy, healing, exercise tend to fall into Function. Yogic practices, inner alchemy and also true Art are Flow. And again, Glow is the timeless ever-present reality accessible through Grace alone; a happy accident that no technique can ensure. (Adyashanti tirelessly points to This.) * An extension of this is to think of Function, Flow and Glow as independent lines of development. This can be useful to explain how various, sometimes strange and unexpected combinations of skillfullness can occur. For example, you can be a Yogic genius, and have Light just pouring through you into the world and be totally fucked up on a Functional level, even to the point of being a destructive personality --- this goes back to your Osho thread, and to your dilemna with deranged gurus in general. Same could apply to someone who has realized Glow. It's not a secret that Ramana Maharshi, one of the most brilliant examples of Glow in the last hundred years, was basically bathed and fed by his devotees. If he were born in America, without a support network like exists in India for dysfunctional sages, he might have become the local filthy, traumatized homeless man with the bright eyes sleeping under the bridge. To tie this more directly into enlightenment and evolution, another way to look at Function, Flow and Glow is as representing the three major life orientations or spiritual thrusts: Function is Pagan, unity with Earth, grounding, downward and horizontal consciousness. Flow is Transcendental, unity with Heaven, uplifting, upward and vertical consciousness. Glow is Nondual, the unity of Heaven and Earth, circular, spiralling, three dimensional consciousness, the unity of transcendental Emptiness and immanent Form, of Enlightenment and Evolution. This is where I believe the possibility of evolutionary enlightenment and incarnational nonduality exists. I have more thoughts on this but I have to rest for now. Sean References: A Seminar on Sexual Yoga, with David Deida Evolutionary Spirituality. Part 1. Incarnational Nonduality, with Andrew Cohen and Ken Wilber

Via Asia Times Online Culturally, the Taoist framework of self-maximization has much to do with corruption in China. In contrast with the Confucian principles that call for officials to act for the common good, Taoism recognizes the need and right of individuals to act for their own benefit. This allows Chinese people to accept the need for officials to enrich themselves, and, indeed, many see the richer as more successful. This is why corruption is quite open and direct; you can almost predict what any particular activity will cost. (more) And a response via The Useless Tree The only way I can understand this assertion is that the author is extrapolating from the religious Taoist practice of life extension, searching for medicinal means to prolong health and life span. But the interpretation fails, utterly. The author has obviously never seriously read the Tao Te Ching, Chuang Tzu or Lieh Tzu. If he (she?) had, he would know that Taoism is not about selfishness. It is not about "the need and right of individuals to act for their own benefit." (more)

IMO there is really no other choice but to "mix 'n match" because "you" and your thoughts and beliefs are an alchemy of the moment you are in; your history, your culture, your memories, your attitude, the philosophies you've been exposed to, your genes, etc. We are more of a melting pot now so it's more apparent. But ancient practices likewise. Including so-called "pure practices". The Tao Teh Ching did not just jump out of a vacuum. Taoism was mixing and matching elements of Chinese shamanism from the start. Should we try to tease that out? And we could go further back. This gets fun. Trying to find the pure essence of a form. But ultimately you are turned inside out in your search ... for true essence is Nameless, no? Sean

Where have you read this legend about a ray of sunshine piercing the fog of San Francisco!?? I will need to see if to believe it! I keep forgetting you are in the Bay, man. We should get tea sometime. I have been too busy to make it over the bridge in ages though.

Freeform, I'm not able to reproduce this problem in Firefox (my usual browser) or IE. What browser are you using? Is anyone else experiencing this issue?

Hahah! I'm glad you like the pendulum. No, I'm not cutting my tongue yet. Not quite sure about that part of AYP yet, we'll see. Nice pic of the vagus, at that angle is does see more like the central channel. Interesting thoughts re: "hormonal secretion" cycle. This bridging is such a fun mystery! cloud, sorry I missed your request there, here is a link to the post on AYP - spinal breathing versus microcosmic orbit Ok, Bill, tumoessence, sent me his correspondence with Yogani on this issue for further thoughts: From: Bill To: Yogani Subject: forum comment -- "down the front" Hello Yogani, I have made a comment in the pranayama section of the forum that I hope you could comment on if you have the time. It is in the section comparing spinal breathing to the Taoist microcosmic orbit. In your post you charactorized the descent down the front of the body as a biological phase in contrast to the spinal nerve which is neurological. Does that mean that as a biological process that the descending front channel in the MO should just be allowed to happen rather than intentionally practiced? In my post I didn't pose this as a question, in fact I may have answered my own thoughts but I was actually hoping for your thoughts. I have practiced Chia's path in the past a long time ago, and I find that ayp is more fulfilling for me and I thank you for that. Best Wishes, Bill From: Yogani To: Bill Subject: Re: forum comment -- "down the front" Hi Bill I think the distinction between yoga and taoism on "down the front" is more method-related than in terms of understanding of the process itself. The neurobiology is what it is. As mentioned in my post, in yoga, the methods are largely physical in the form of mudras and bandhas, and there can be no mistake that the cause and effect being applied is intentional. There is "intention" involved in mudras and bandhas, including direct references to energy coming down the front (particularly into the heart) in some yoga traditions. So there is no waiting for the "down the front" to happen in relation to the step-by-step sequencing of adding the mudras and bandhas. I am sure there is a similar phase-in with taoist methods. So both are intentional. It is just a matter of method and style. I also did taoist methods many years ago, but ended up sticking with my yoga roots, and expanding on them, because the coverage was more complete in terms of meditation, samyama and other methods. Which is not to say taoism is not a complete system. It was just not as accessible and clear on both sides of the enlightenment equation at the time (cultivating both inner silence and ecstatic energy/conductivity). As we know, taoism is (rightly or wrongly) regarded as primarily and energy-oriented system. I do believe it is more developed deeper within its lineages. My goal has always been to find complete, efficient and do-able methods covering all the spiritual capabilities in the nervous system as mirrored in the eight limbs of Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, and that is why AYP is what it is. Perhaps someone will come along and reveal the full scope of taoist methods in a balanced way that everyone can understand and use, if they have not already. I would welcome it from any tradition. This is the age of applied spiritual science! So, we don't have to wait for anything to happen "down the front," within the bounds of effective practices, including prudent self-pacing for maximum progress with comfort and safety. And, as I always say, it is the practitioner's choice on what system of practices to use. Reminder: Overlapping different systems of practice is always tricky, and that is why you do not see much of it in AYP - but we do honor all effective approaches. It was interesting to read in your post that some taoist systems of practice include spinal breathing up and down the spinal nerve. It goes to show that the truth is the same everywhere... :-) All the best! The guru is in you. Yogani http://www.aypsite.com

Finally took time read this thread. What a party. Interesting stuff from seandenty here. I wanted to throw in my two cents and say that, personally, I am more drawn to paths that lay more meat out up front. It's the American way! Ok, even if I need a teacher for minor or even major guidance in applying the techniques, give me a thumbnail sketch of what I am getting into. I am too hip on cults to sign up for something without a sense of what it's about. I can fully accept a layer of secretiveness. Particularly as an effort to maintain the sacredness of particular teachings, rituals, etc. or to protect the group from opression, say, if there are techniques involving fun illicit drugs, yogic sex with porn stars, clowns, midgets ... Alright, I am not a fan of the "it's secret so you don't hurt yourself" thing. I assume a certain almost magical quality to naive sincerity. Even a worthless technique done in the right spirit is better than the perfect method done for the wrong reasons. Hurting oneself is an act of ignorance, of unconsciousness. And we are already doing this in every moment! Ask the Buddhists, they will tell you. But it's this thread of nearly foolish sincerity that guides us IMO. It's a very personal thing. My Taoist teacher Liu Ming tells me human beings can not even consciously kill themselves. Taoists believe suicide is a case of unresolved ancestral qi. In effect, an enraged demonic ancestor killing you with your own hands. Whoah. But to find a place of sincerity, where you consciously want to become a more evolved being, or even just want to have more fun, genuinely, to get in touch with the tiniest sliver of intuition, and follow this thread of bliss, even if there is a big pile of karmic crud on top of it, well I believe this is the whole path. It's when picking a flower for your lover is as powerful a qigong as flying to China and meeting a new super advanced teacher. It's so simple. We can have a blast concocting elaborate rituals, learning to shoot qi balls, flying ... it could all even be part of our evolution. And Still there Is Silence the whole Way. Debating over a hierarchy of spiritual advancement is bizarre. There is no hierarchy. Evolution and progress are a function of time. What is Timeless? Nothing. Silence. And there is literally Nothing but Now. That's it. Now you are reading this. So this is That. Maybe you will be cooking later. That will be It. Completely and totally It. Maybe you will be in China with an extraordinary human being. That will be It. Up and down, moods change, your memories shift, round and round. What remains still? Can you see? Honestly I only catch a glimpse myself. But how it feels! It's surely Truth. I am aware that traditionally the Chinese sages were highly secretive. So it's possible that taking Taoism "all the way" requires a deeper embrace of this feature of the path. I'll stay a bum as long as I can though. Really many paths from all culture's including the West have been traditionally structured in a way many today would consider shockingly secretive, exclusive and elitist. For all number of reasons, good and bad. I am not the least bit offended by seandenty's posts here, (nor Li Jiong's in the past.) I think they are intriguing actually, and I would be curious to meet these fellows and their masters. I can't help feel that seandenty may be projecting a certain amount of his own love for his teachers outward as more objective features of the world than they are. When you have powerful experiences with someone it's like that though. Like, I can say with certainty that having sex with Lezlie is way way more high level than with ordinary women. She has many secret powers I have never seen demonstrated before. Only read about in books of legends. I consider it very unfortunate that none of you will ever be enlightened in this secret and powerful qigong, but it's an elite path reserved for only one man. hhhaah... LOL! Just "for the record", this is not the first time a Westerner has been accepted by an authentic Taoist family. Off the top of my head there has been Kristofer Schipper, Michael Saso and my teacher Liu Ming and I have not been looking. Ming teaches zuowang, "sitting in forgetfullness", an emptiness meditation basically indistinguishable from zazen. Later I believe he introduces alchemical meditations, but in a similar spirit that he teaches cooking clases and Taoist astrology; useful details to enrich the core process of embracing the ordinary that is engaged through zuowang. Honestly, does it need to be fundamentally more complex than this? Is there really so much more room for "irony and missteps" intrinsic to so-called "spiritual practice" than that which is inherent in any moment in life? Sean

We should all chip in for something like this Deep Tissue Massage and Myofascial Release. I'd be willing to chip in $50 for something like that.

Nope, sorry, no experience with the Frolov. You may want to try to get Plato in here, I am pretty sure he has experience with it. I don't even play with Buteyko breathing so much these days.

Ok. Let's get drunk on Tsing Tao there too. Are they open late? Lezlie said you are paying.

The Dark Prince will be so proud! Satanism - 67% Buddhism - 63% Hinduism - 63% Paganism - 58% agnosticism - 58% Christianity - 42% Islam - 38% Judaism - 29% atheism - 25%