sean

Oops, you think it's inappropriate? I just thought it was a funny story. Fong is so gentle hearted, he was not being mean spirited, I think probably just poking fun. It's not a big secret that many IMA teachers don't take Chia very seriously is it? I was trying to plan us to go hang with Fong while you are here, that's why I asked you the other day when your flight times are. He doesn't do class on Fridays is the thing, so we'd have to see if Saturday or Sunday morning class conflicted with Adyashanti or if your flight leaves late enough on Monday we can catch Monday morning class. Sean

I trained with Fong Ha on Saturday and signed up for a month of class. Fong is really cool. Really sharp and quick, but not frenetic in the least bit. Super grounded. He started class with various sitting and standing in stillness postures, then moves to joint warm ups, 8 brocade style, a walking form and then a 108 piece Tai Chi form that will take me a zillion years to learn half of. This morning I showed up for the early morning class. I was surprised to see Fong alone, sitting at a bench in the park with a hooded sweatshirt on, hood over his head, deep in meditation. I stood in front of him for a minute before he opened his eyes. I expected him to be startled or disoriented from moving from deep meditation to having to face and communicate with another person. He was not startled in the least, nor put off by the lack of attendance, he immediatly stood and started teaching me with his full attention. It was funny, at one point he asked me my last name and I said "Omlor", and he says "Omlor. Omlor. Om. Om. Aum-lor. Aum. Very nice. You have sacred sound in your name. This is good. Good name." After class, it was still just him and I so we went for tea. His publisher coincidentally showed up which was great because I got to sit in on a conversation they had about the approach he wants to take for his next book. They started talking about other Qigong teachers, and about their various approaches to writing Qigong materials. Fong brought up Ken Cohen and they agreed he is doing great work, and they also had a good laugh reminiscing about how Ken used to come to Fong's class all dressed up in like these crazy Chinese outfits. Fong was laughing, he said he's never seen someone dress so Chinese even in Taoist monasteries in China. I brought up BK Frantzis, and Fong spoke highly of him and said that BK has taken classes with him and that he sees him in Hawaii when he goes there to teach ... apparently Kumar is always trying to get Fong to drink whiskey with him. Then I got brave and mentioned Mantak Chia. I said, "Fong, you could go Mantak Chia style and just create a whole empire!". Fong got kind of serious and told me that Mantak Chia is nothing but an herbalist that didn't write any of his books. Hahah... Sean

Mark Griffin is great. I've sat with him twice now and it's like taking acid, the space that he invites you into is powerful. Re: inspiring streaming media type stuff, I am really hooked on Integral Naked. Sean

Lozen, it's funny, there was just a similar discussion on Applied_Taoism last week. Via Applied_Taoism Date: Fri Jun 2, 2006 4:20 pm (PDT) From: "STEVEN HAIDINGER" Subject: Judas Gospels What do you think about the Judas Gospels? Was Jesus a Taoist? Date: Fri Jun 2, 2006 6:38 pm (PDT) From: "donham dennis" Subject: Re: Judas Gospels Certainly, an argument can be put forth philosophically that he was grounded in Taoist tenets. As to his exposure to them, he was more likely exposed to Buddhist tenets (I know you may not like to hear that, Steve.) There are books written on this subject that place him in Buddhist monasteries as far east as Ladakh, where next to one to this day there is a pool called the "pool of Issu" (the Buddhist name for Jesus) where someone from the area of Palestine supposedly came and stayed and preached. Several scholars have tried to track this legend down within the local monastery which supposedly has records of the stay but the monks will not share their records....There are written records on stone in China blending sayings from the New Testament and the Tao, too....there's history, philosophy, oral legend, all leaving separate paths, much like the Tao. Dennis Donham Date: Sat Jun 3, 2006 3:11 pm (PDT) From: "STEVEN HAIDINGER" Subject: Re: Judas Gospels Dear Dennis: Thank you for the information. You provided me with insight and information that I was unaware existed. I will investigate more. In the Judas document, scene 3: Jesus said, "Come that I may teach you about secrets no person has ever seen. For there exists a great boundless realm, whose extent no generation of angels has seen, in which there is a great invisible spirit, which no eye of an angel has ever seen, no thought of the heart has ever comprehended, and it has never called by any name ----------------------------------------------------------- I think the above passage from the Judas document is similar to the Tao Te Ching #1.

Incredible article owl! Yup, taking it to the next level. Thank you. neimad, I suggested owl put this in Taoist Discussion to increase it's exposure. I think a lot of users miss the contributed articles section unfortunately. I'm planning on designing a new solution for contributed articles ... probably a separate zine section at some point. Sean

It's quite possible the film does not hold up on it's own and I'm only buzzing from taking certain parts inspirational to me and fitting them into what I believe is my own, hopefully more coherent model of spirituality that addresses the concerns brought up here. Here is a piece I've written previously on TTB that address this topic: and also Really though, I don't really see how the contents of the video, even taken at face value as presented, are any more offensive to people suffering than many beliefs presented by established esoteric traditions; beliefs such as karma, samsara, hell. (And since when are the reactions of people in suffering the only standard by which metaphysics are judged anyway?) How is telling a rape survivor the concept that we manifest our reality 100% different than saying: "The effects of karma (actions) are inevitable, and in previous lifetimes we have accumulated negative karma which will inevitably have its fruition in this or future lives. Just as someone witnessed by police in a criminal act will eventually be caught and punished, so we too must face the consequences of faulty actions we have committed in the past, there is no way to be at ease; those actions are irreversible; we must eventually undergo their effects." --- Dalai Lama, "Kindness, Clarity and Insight" "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A person reaps what he sows." --- (Gal. 6:7) And how is this following explanation of karma fundamentally different than the 100% conscious creation view? "Some people misunderstand the concept of karma. They take the Buddha's doctrine of the law of causality to mean that all is predetermined, that there is nothing that the individual can do. This is a total misunderstanding. The very term karma or action is a term of active force, which indicates that future events are within your own hands. Since action is a phenomenon that is committed by a person, a living being, it is within your own hands whether or not you engage in action." --- Dalai Lama, "Path to Bliss" Finally, how are the carrot on the sticks called enlightenment, immortality, effortless action, supermind, nirvana, etc. fundamentally different ishta's than the ideal of having 100% conscious alignment with one's destiny? Sean

Heh, I remember that scene. There was some other scenes in the movie where that actor was doing some cool Yoga moves. Good stuff. Sean

If you watched the entire film there is an interesting paradox that comes through. In the beginning the teachers kind of "hook" the audience with this "the world is your Sears catalog" model of the universe. They hook the audience with, likely, their strongest desires ... to be in control of their lives, to have wealth, successful relationships, happiness, and everything they want out of life. Then, one of the first practices they suggest for acheiving this, is an immersion in gratitude for what already is perfect in their lives. Maybe it's a on a dangerously superficial level that this practice starts out on. And maybe there is the temptation to start judging any tragedy on a superficial level, as if the victims are poorly applying "the secret" (one of the teachers in the movie says something really close that unfortunately). But come on, spiritual practices are chock full of advice that can lead to dangerous misconceptions, that's the nature of the game. Not to say that it's not our place to analyze and criticize beliefs and practices though. This is vital too since some paths do lend to more confusion and suffering than others obviously. Anyway, here is how I took the message of this movie: 1) Look for what is capable of being appreciated in every situation, cultivating humble gratitude and you will naturally create a space for more of the same. Grasping and aversion lead to suffering. 2) Seek to discover and satisfy your deepest desires. Start where you are, and trust that the bread crumbs will lead to more and more skillful means. So you think you want a nice house and a beautiful, healthy family? Nothing wrong with that. Make it happen and live it to the fullest and always keep your eyes open to see if there is something you desire even more deeply. Imperturbable happiness? Enlightenment? 3) Open to the enlightened part of yourself that is not separate from anything, that is completely one with the Tao, which is the intelligent source of all manifestation. It's in this sense that we truly are creating everything, and, as you pointed out Hagar, not always as the individual self craves. But we can assume that, on some level, that which we truly are intended this moment to be exactly as it is. 4) So we can assume that we are getting 100% what we need, and what we, on some level, intended and asked for. This doesn't sound that new agey to me. #2 is on the Tantric side of the scale, and so not found in mainstream scriptural sources like the Christian Bible or the Pali Sutras, but I bet I could dig and find references to support each of those views and practices within the deeper mystical traditions of Taoism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity and Hinduism. And maybe I am just naturally fitting in the movie into a more sophisticated level than just the "average viewer", or at least, the viewer that has the type of misconceptions spoken of above. So I think the criticism is warranted and welcomed. I still rail on "What the Bleep?" and think that movie was garbage so we all have our trigger points. But I think it's good to have mainstream productions of this nature to at least get people talking and thinking about these sorts of things. And if you think about it, all spiritual traditions have a marketing hook. Typically one that appeals strongly to the audience. The Chinese revere old age, is it any surprise their masters market immortality? A couple thousand years ago there was a Hagar going, "Dude! This is bullshit. You are all going to die. You need to accept it." And that's right, it's good, clear, Zen advice in the bamboo thwack style. But in the hands of a teacher it's not just marketing gimmick it can be skillful means to appeal to our resistant egos to engage in practices that ultimately unravel and transcend the ego. However you try to squirm around it, if you're honest I think a big part of anyone on a spiritual path's motiviation arises to some extent from very basic, self-centered desires for pleasure, happiness, freedom, love, immortality, even power, sex, beauty, money, worship, you name it. Skillful means, IMO, is the process by which the desires of the lower three chakras are transcended but also included, in a transformed state, in an deepening spiral of refined desire. Whaddya think? Sean PS- I was wondering where those Esther tapes were!! Thanks for the intention though, I had a feeling you sent that.

I had the same feeling Craig. I've read all this stuff a hundred times but seeing it come through in a nice presentation like this had a more powerful effect. Really helped the wisdom click on a deeper level for me. I woke up this morning paying attention to all of the wonderful things in my life and I am having a really amazing day. Also I am really looking forward to the million dollars I will make this year. Wow, if TV were even had 2% more content like this ... what would the world look like? Sean

Can someone explain this video to me? I'm not trying to be cynical but it's hard for me to understand why that guy is flying around. I just can't imagine walking into that class, day one, doing push hands with that guy and letting him push me across the room like that. I've just never had an experience like this but I see similar things in all these push hands videos. Sean

Looks like RMAX has got the Interactive 3D Performance Pyramid I designed up on their site. Probably the best way to really explore this concept, essential to CST, check it out. Sean

Thanks guys! Michael, I noticed they haven't filled out a few pages as well. I just did the animation on the right hand side and linked it up with blank web pages on the left for RMAX to fill out and put whatever content in they want. They are probably still works in progress, but I'll let them know there is "texttexttext" online just in case they missed those. Thanks. Good eye. Sean

Hey man, thanks for the push. I've known Fong Ha was in my neighborhood for like 4 years now but you've convinced me to go train with him and I'm heading over there this Saturday. 1 hour of standing a day is impressive! Sean

Yeah, that looks cool. Have you read it? From the table of contents on amazon Tim Cartmell and Bruce Frantzis are both interviewed as well as Fong Ha, a teacher right down the street from me I've been debating studying with. ... (flipping through book on amazon reader more) ... yeah this does look great, I may pick this one up, thanks. Sean

Nicely put! It's so simple, how could it be this simple! Sean

Finally had a chance to read this. Nice article neimad. I've been going through something very similar recently. Opening up into the present. Even when the present involves something like the pressure of a deadline, allowing myself to stay open and grounded in the now and flow through the pressure as a present moment-to-moment experience. This is in contrast to having my energy do something like contract up into my head into a mental projection of time as being a real, linear force outside of myself and imposed upon "poor little me". In this scenario I am left struggling against a mental illusion of a past and future sandwich. Now, when I notice I am doing this I continue my work without stopping while simultaneously allowing myself to recognize the inescapably true and real felt connection with Now as all I can really know. In this Now-space there is only sensation floating in an infinite, timeless moment. I notice what eventually pulls me from continuing to open into this space is basically fear. My mind fears how infinitely open this space is, there is literally nothing to stand on or hold on to, even the feeling that I have my feet on the ground or my fingers are typing are just sensations arising in a mysterious sea without boundaries. Sean

30 days later here, but don't want to leave you out of the love fest man. Welcome. I've been enjoying your posts. Damn, already up to 61. Sean

Hey, Kevin, I'm curious how your search for a physical practice is going? Right now it seems like the ones that are both popular on the board and also accessible (ie: can be learned relatively easily from DVD) are (in no particular order) Yin/Taoist Yoga, 4D Meridian Chi Kung, Shamanic Tiger Qigong, and of course Sonnon's CST stuff (am I missing any popular ones here?) ... Sean

Hello Vera. Welcome! Sean

Hey Christopher, welcome! I like your handle "eatyourgreens", it's what a lot of us have been getting into lately. Sean

Hey Brett, welcome to TTB! I've enjoyed your posts over at AYP. (Actually downloaded and use one of your meditation timer bells, thx! ) ... Hey, have you checked out Yogani's new book on Tantra yet? I'm still finishing up the Pranayama one, damn he is getting too fast for me. Sean

... .. . . bzzzzz... nnhhhhgggggg..... ... bloop ... .

Hey nicholas, Welcome to TTB! That is a great compliment "tao crazy" ... I love it. Yoda, you see this? We are world famous! Sean

OWL! I am so so happy to see you joined us! Sean

I never tire of watching David Elsewhere dance ... here is that Volkswagen commercial he was in and this is his website. Sean