Apech

I wrestled with insanity for many years, then luckily one day, insanity won.

A thousand likes for this.

Oh Steve, Steve, you old skeptic you What you say is right, I think in one way - but I'm as sure as I can be that my experience was linked to that old guy and I think you have to trust your intuition on these things.

feng shui , shoo them. And what's more sock it to them with your entire soul.

Sure, in fact I made this point in a previous post. I wasn't saying ethics are necessary to qi development but that your conduct has an influence on how that qi develops.

What do you smoke in that pipe?

That's a nice hierarchy I guess - humanity, age then gender - but doesn't it ignore some very basic facts that most men are attracted sexually to women and visa versa. It doesn't matter what the supposed 'should be' hierarchy is - what matters is how people actually behave and why - I would suggest. There's something deeper going on among men who cannot relate to women beyond 'phew! she's hot' and so on. And it's, IMO, a basic split in their anima/animus or perhaps Yinyang balance. Maybe this gives rise to socio-political effects like patriarchy and so on - but a lot of bilge is spoken about that too. What would free sexual expression look like to you. If it's 'free' why doesn't it include 'O at a D' in McDonalds??? You're not really advocating a continued US military presence in Syria are you? Do you favour imperial and colonial ambitions? The US shouldn't be there in the first place. When they do act they destabilise the whole region - Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria - a complete bloody mess with US bootprints all over it. No more regime change wars - I say - bring the troops home and stop fighting other people's fights. Sooner or later you've got to correct the balance or you end up like in Vietnam committing more and more in terms if money, lives and so on.

Many years ago when I was living in Manchester, England, I was practicing qi gong and taiji as well as Aikido three times a week. I used to like to go to Chinatown and browse the Chinese stores that sold martial arts stuff etc. One time I was looking at a display in a shop when I suddenly felt an incredible rush of warm (and very pleasant) energy. I was surprised cos I wasn't doing any anything that might promote such a thing then I noticed a small Chinese guy, quite old, walk behind me wearing a forage cap. I realised he was an accomplished master and just his proximity had lit me up. Rather than rush up to him and ask for teachings I felt into the energy and sensed that he did not want to be approached so I felt I should respect that. I never saw him again and have no idea who he was. I don't think he was projecting anything at me - I think it was just his presence which sparked off the energy in me. I don't think he wanted any interaction with me - it was just something that happened spontaneously. So I think it is a truism that having reached a certain level of practice your energy is going to affect those around you. And obviously you could use this effect in alchemical work - dual practice and so on. I think all that is quite clear and 'legitimate' - whatever that means in this context. Of course there's a very good reason why ethical development goes hand in hand with energy development - actually this is not a separate thing since your conduct/ethos has a direct impact on your subtle body - leading to wholeness and integrity - as do positive emotions like love and compassion. But it is possible as many examples show (some of them posted on this thread) that you can kind of jump to the high energy stuff - if your being is already distorted by experience and ancestral karmic inheritance then you are going to become more distorted. I'm a bit puzzled as where the patriarchy comes into this - except to say maybe such things are part of our cultural karma. I see this as being much more fundamental than just some social conditioning - but I am willing to be convinced otherwise. A.

Agreed - I just read the whole thing. It seems quite dodgy as it involves 'young people' = children. It seems Daoist alchemy has a long and somewhat patchy history in terms of people trying out different things. What that has to do with the current topic I don't know.

This probably the best bet in these circumstances. Or we all agree to report Everythings next post if it is not on topic. To be honest I just skip them purely on the basis that they are too long to read anyway

Can we find a way to avoid turning this thread into a long argument please.

There's an interesting point behind all this which is about why those who are into energy cultivation of some kind are so often drawn in somehow to some kind of perverted sexuality. It seems very common and maybe we need to consider something beyond knee-jerk blame - not because I want to excuse but because I think we need to understand. I guess it is obvious that it is often because people try to skip the long and difficult path of purification - but also because time and care is not taken to properly understand what is going on. But also because it is relatively easy to open up energy and relatively pleasant to have sexual feelings and so on. Also on a mental/emotional/energetic level I think it may be very easy to over-ride actual relation with the other person in preference to relating to our own energy projections. For instance women become sexual objects rather than sentient beings because the force of the energy projects too strongly. (not sure if I have explained this properly ). Beings who are, shall we say, very radiant or natural high energy will influence others. As will people with special energy body configurations - they have natural magnetism and charisma. Others develop this through practice such as qi gong or whatever. So they become as a lamp to moths just because of the heightened energy. So there are dangers, I believe, which may turn things bad - when the people involved may not be essentially bad people.

What!?! You have brains?

Thanks - actually I think that's very good. You've clearly thrown out a lot of dross and misconceptions. I agree about demonstrations of so called qi and power generally - it is mostly stage magic and tricks to impress the impressionable. If you are interested in philosophy though you might find that the essential idea of qi is not some mysterious force at all. It is part of an ancient cosmological view rather like yinyang theory and wuxing. You could say if you like that it is a way of looking at the world, a view. So don't throw the baby out with the bathwater just because of some charlatans, I would suggest. For myself awareness of qi came through meditation and had a profound affect on me - and leaves me in no doubt - although I accept that there is a lot of crap spoken as well. But I think we each need to find our own way based on our own genuine experiences - looking to others or the consensus is not very useful. Thanks for sharing your experiences. A.

Hi, Thanks for your story. I'm not, by the way going to go into the 'provocative' thing ... except to say it's ok in my view to provoke ... why not? However, as a person who does regularly practice with what might be termed 'energetics and qi' I'm very interested in why you came to the conclusion that most of it is nonsense. I don't have a problem with this - but perhaps I would say that a lot of nonsense is spoken about it rather than it itself being nonsense - which is slightly different. I think it is possible to apply Daoist principles to anything - with or without qi, hand waving and so on. So each to his own. I hope you will fill out a little your experiences and conclusions around this subject. Cheers. A.

Egg, chicken, chicken, egg. But let's get back to the subject. I think perhaps the dual concepts of boundaries and ownership makes people protective, grumpy, fearful and aggressive. This could be wrong but it seems right to me. So there's some kind of iterative effect from some agriculture and settled communities based on land - which has knock on consequences. I think it is proven that birth rates and populations boomed under Neolithic farming - once that happens the pressure becomes to expand and take more territory (from hunter gatherers - who instinctively just move on giving up territory to the farmers and so on. I saw a video which suggested that assimilation rates were about three generations - which is quite a short period of time. On the other hand pastoralists and farmers had a semi-symbiotic relationship where they would herd their animals onto harvested land so they would eat the stubble and shit on the fields - or so according to Romila Thapal.

inhumani-tea

Actually I can think of some arguments where irrigation is a technology which would require a deal of social organisation - and also engineering skills. I don't know about Sumer but the Indus Valley had some quite complex irrigation (and may well have died out because of their failure i.e. the drying out of the Saraswati etc.) Egypt of course had a kind of natural irrigation with the Nile inundation - but even here things like measuring out fields post flood brought in maths and surveying skills. Pastoralism on the other hand exists in 'non-civilised' culture (if I may call them this) - and obviously doesn't require large numbers of people living in close proximity all year.

Heaven is known for its easefulness, the earth for simplicity and the Dao for its uselessness. Being easeful, simple and useless is the Daoist way. You may feel anxious and awkward because you haven't grasped the way. Don't hurt yourself anymore. Don't hate yourself anymore. Not wanting to watch porn makes you watch porn (?) Have you thought about it this way?

It's a bit b/s as Buddhist monks deliberately meditate on impermanence and death ... and also the precious human birth - so it is on their mind so to speak than others. In other words the study doesn't really address cultural attitudes.

being Enkidu?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/01/obituaries/sogyal-rinpoche-dies.html https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/02/trustee-uk-charity-covered-up-abuse-buddhist-guru-rigpa-fellowship