Apech

Forgive

I just drink copious amounts of red wine. It helps. I recommend it.

FFS cheer up everybody. When I get depressed I just come on to the Brexit thread on DBs so I can see how much worse things could be.

conscious (adj.) c. 1600, "knowing, privy to" (poetic), from Latin conscius "knowing, aware," from conscire "be (mutually) aware," from assimilated form of com "with," or "thoroughly" (see con-) + scire "to know" (see science). The Latin word probably is a loan-translation of Greek syneidos. science (n.) mid-14c., "what is known, knowledge (of something) acquired by study; information;" also "assurance of knowledge, certitude, certainty," from Old French science "knowledge, learning, application; corpus of human knowledge" (12c.), from Latin scientia "knowledge, a knowing; expertness," from sciens(genitive scientis) "intelligent, skilled," present participle of scire "to know," probably originally "to separate one thing from another, to distinguish," related to scindere "to cut, divide," from PIE root *skei- "to cut, split" (source also of Greek skhizein "to split, rend, cleave," Gothic skaidan, Old English sceadan "to divide, separate").

Consciousness divides to know - if your 'subject' is consciousness then I agree.

Nice to see the Brexit thread is continuing in its usual good natured way.

I think it arises from the subject/object division which is a consequence of vijnana (as per the 12 steps of dependent origination).

Hi, You can distinguish but ultimately it is the union of these aspects which is the ultimate reality. I can paint a picture of what I mean but bear in mind I am just an ordinary practitioner with an ordinary understanding. Mind is often described as 'sky-like' by which they mean it is open, expansive, pure, clear and without a form of its own. But the metaphor is limited because the sky is a physical appearance without qualities, while the Mind is self-luminous or full of awareness. By self-luminous I don't mean to suggest a 'self' but in the reflexive sense - Mind has the inherent quality of awareness. The image is a sun-lit sky. You could say it's an infinite field of consciousness or awareness. But even this is not enough because like space (of which the sky is an example) itself it is not just a field of light but also has a dark aspect - but by dark I don't mean obscured like shadow I mean it is an infinite expanse which is full of intent (or if you prefer power). Because of this infinite potential it is continually and endlessly in motion - and this motion is energy. The motion itself has two aspects - translational and rotational. The translational motion of mind is like the activity of the infinite light field i.e. awareness spreading in all directions simultaneously - while rotational motion causes stable zones of particular stress within the infinite which manifest as content, things, thoughts, beings of all kinds. These are nothing other than modalities of the infinite made finite in a particular place, for a certain time with a set a qualities derived from the infinite but expressing themselves in specific ways - a tree, a person, a universe and so on. They are 'empty' because in essence they have no self-being other than modalities of the infinite - they are temporary, dependent and made of a collection of qualities derived from the infinite. If we look from the perspective of our individual existence then the infinite appears to have two different aspects - that of awareness and that of intent/energy - but that is really our dualistic way of thinking and ultimately if we achieve enlightenment we will realise that awareness/consciousness/sentience and energy/intent/power while not being the same are not different - i.e. non-dual resolved in the infinite/dharmakaya/buddha-naure - call it what you will. These words are my own and not strictly Buddha-dharma so beware they are inexact ad probably flawed but its the best I can. There's a lot of literature on these subjects - if I can think of anything helpful I'll link to it

Mushin or no-mind is I think the basic position of Zen.

But energy is empty. But you are right about most Buddhist schools.

I think this is the point - by saying things are empty does not mean they don't exist in the way we might mean. Since after all I'm empty and so are you - so gods, spirits, ghosts and so on may be empty but at the same time as real as you or me.

the words translated as 'mind' are usually citta, manas or vijnana. Citta was originally a Samkhya term which referred to mind-stuff i.e. the subtle aspect of prakriti (substance) in which thoughts, feelings and so on occur. Later both Buddhism and Yoga (Patanjali) took this term and expanded its application to mean the universal sentient energy which encompasses everything. Specifically it was thought of as that which takes on form and discharges it. This leads to statement like all is mind and so on - as in the Buddhism tradition of citta-matra (Mind-only). Manas again in Samkhya philosophy was the kind of accounting faculty of consciousness which sits behind the six sense bases and receives and interprets perceptions. Although in Samkhya there was a separate aspect of mind called ahamkara which imputes 'self' onto perceptual activity in Buddhism it is the manas which does this. Vijnana is usually translated as consciousness - and literally means jnana = knowing and vi = for, or towards or sometimes 'intense' knowing. Sometimes it is used generally for consciousness in way we might use it - but more often it is specifically that which creates the subject/object division and creates the situation where the knower knows the known - subject/object conditional mind. Citta is probably the best fit for what we might think of as a field of consciousness which still 'is' without the subject /object division - but you will see all three used in this way.

Can you explain what distinction you are making between 'astral' and 'mind'. Classically the astral realms are the spirit realms that the soul can pass through on death and so on. Also astral just means 'of stars' and stars in traditional astrology are some thing like 'thought forms' or subtle influencing energies - the patterns they make - constellations - and the heavenly cycles are the blue print of all existence - what we see working out in time on earth is the interweaving of these pure forms or intelligences. For instance the Egyptians would call these the 'baw' (souls) of the gods - and say that the structure of the cosmos is composed of these souls. If on the other hand you mean psychically perceived energy beings - ghosts, entities and so on - these would be on a lower level than true astral beings - and part of the time-world rather than the eternal realms.

Don't sound so happy about it.

yes more like being opened up to what is naturally occurring than anything spooky or weird

One of the first things that happened to me when I started to meditate was picking up peoples 'energy' - including thoughts, intentions and feelings. Not that I actually saw, or see anything particularly - but there is an awareness there - like a field awareness. If I can do this then I am sure the more advanced people/masters/teachers can do it easily. If this is seeing then it is - but the more 'astral' type seeing with auras and wotnot I'm not sure that is always helpful or necessary. (?) Basic shamatha - (shine) can produce siddhis.

Their form would be more fluid without the anchor of a phys. bod.

That's very good, thanks.

Hi Vismund, Thanks for your account of what happened to you. Very interesting. And I'm not going to say I understand fully what has been going on with you - but its clear that you had a spontaneous spiritual experience. Many people yearn for such things but I think your story illustrates how confusing they can be. They change the direction of your life and you are not always ready for that. I think it shows why a lot of systems like Buddhism and Daoism spend quite a long time in preparation and have various stages - which a bit like growing up as a child - you need the time and space to assimilate. If you haven't got the ideas and tools to do that - interpret your own experiences to yourself then you can get in a mess. The synchronicity of events is interesting because it means that the energy is guiding you even if you don't know what it's up to. You've studied a lot of occult stuff which is great. But I think where you may need to concentrate is your own emotions. Humans are 90% about emotions - even though, especially men, we tend to deny this. And I don't mean indulge your emotions by the way, I mean learn to understand them and ... I want to say smooth them out - but I mean extract the negative patterns and routines that they contain. Also just basic stuff like good healthy eating, try to reduce alcohol intake (!), physical exercise, attend to fixable things in your daily life, attend to your relationships and so on. Try to become rounded and integrated enough to allow that experience reemerge and settle in a wholesome way. That kind of thing. You'll be great. Anyway - hope this makes some sense and not too rambling.

Life is full of missed opportunities

Not currently.

Yes as you put it Tantric Yoga is very deep stuff. However the whole point of the Ngondro is that it is practice developed over years, it gets more powerful as it goes on. Siddhis develop over time. No I haven't said that - if I said anything that sounds remotely like that I must have expressed my self badly.

You lost me there. Do group energy work if you want but I assume with beings who do so willingly (which is a completely different issue of course). Conventional truth and absolute truth are valid ideas, yes.

Sure because that's the only thing that is real (even though its not a 'thing').