Apech

Which word is translated as numen - is it shen?

So knowledge reaches its end in spiritual awareness?

What does it mean then when it says 'knowledge reachers its limit?'

When you reach the summit you have to stop - which is the land of humans - infecting even the remotest places on earth

It doesn't say 'mundane' - so I think it is just descriptive. As in 'where to thoughts come from?' - Ans: jing in body causes channels for qi. The qi movement (?) generates thoughts, then thinking gives you knowledge - and that reaches its limit so its the end of the process. Perhaps it is saying don't bother pursuing thoughts any further than this. (?)

I suspect the key is understanding precisely what xin is.

.... So Kirkland suggests Jing, Qi, Shen, De, and Dao as coming and going, thus externally gathered. I may be reading too much Kirkland I take the view (based on very little other than my own intuition) that its a matter of perspective. In ancient times the realm of the numinous or spirit was viewed as, as real as the ordinary world. It was a dimension into which to travel - just like you travel in the physical world. The shamanist view supports this - the cosmos is divided into various realms including the ghost/spirit and you travel there to do certain tasks, like healing or affecting your enemies and so on. The shaman has to purify and prepare him/herself to be acceptable to spirits and deities (te) as it is by their agency he/she gains powers. The whole thing is seen very much as something external, a spirit, coming and taking over the body of the shaman. Neidan actually rejected this view and said it is about internal alchemy - in other words vital energies in the body being purified, sublimated and circulated etc. This actually reflects a shift in human consciousness/perspective about the world and themselves. To see it as internal and to some extent controllable is a much more empirical view - something akin to the shift towards rationality in the West. However, in the end, what is outside and what is inside is a moot point. From the point of view of a sage what is 'outside'? If you see what I mean. Not sure I expressed that properly - but there you go.

Thank you for the reference I will apply to the Guardian for a job right away.

My boyfriend's got no nose.

Guys, guys! Owen Jones is an odious dick. Owen Jones is gay. Therefore gay men are odious dicks. False syllogism! Just saying.

Hmmm interesting.

Like Alan Turing perhaps.

So ghosts and spirits might be hun and po? Which could make sense - especially as it specifically talks about the 'flow' - so earth directed and heaven directed. I prefer the standard line break because that gives a four fold - above, below, flowing, gathering - which is quite a nice pattern.

Funny, but not funny at the same time.

The Brexit party isn't (yet) a party of government as it has no policies apart from Brexit - and contains MEPs who come from right and left - what unifies them is Brexit. So unless this changes I don't see it being anything other than a lobby for WTO No deal. If you look at the results the only area where Brexit Party didn't come first is London - which highlights the national divide and the Westminster bubble effect. England is literally like a person whose head is disconnected from its body, left like this we will rip ourselves apart.

yes. Ghosts and Spirits does imply intelligences - one translation give 'spirits' as the numinous. So I was thinking it is referring to ghosts = ancestor spirits and spirits = deities. This in the space between heaven and Earth where you would expect to find men - or perhaps the 10,000 things. It is universalising jing but specifically relating it to star patterns (constellations), grains, spirits/ghosts - I think this is the key to understanding it. For instance why star patterns and not just stars? why grains and not trees/animals etc and why ghost/spirits and not humans for instance? It is not simply grading existence into three realms it is pointing to the essence bringing order in the sky, growth potential on earth and intelligent entities in between. You are right it seems much more universalised than the jing = generative force = condensed qi stored in kidneys of TCM and Neidan. But then the linear jing-qi-shen of Internal Alchemy was always a bit misleading and probably never taken to be a defining order or ontological relationship but more a praxis for transformation (if that makes sense).

I suspect that it is saying that jing is a potential (energy) and qi is the active (energy). Going back to the first stanza it talks about the ranks or patterns of stars above - and the five grains below. I think this is significant. Obviously grains are seeds - but more importantly they are the potential for growth of the plants - the basis for agriculture. Star patterns are usually about the regular (eternal) cycles - or you could say eternal form which creates the blueprint for the way in which actual events work out in life - the seasons, the lunar cycles perhaps, the year, the days, months and so on - particularly the agricultural year. Just thinking out loud.

Parliament has already passed legislation which means they have to approve any deal - which is why May's deal got knocked back three times. I would guess that in the event of no-deal the UK would offer tariff free trade and the EU would have to decide whether to do the same. One thing that tends to get overlooked is that France, Germany and so on won't be trading partners in any sense but in many ways will be competitors. Also the US will be sniffing around to see if they can cherry pick any business from both the UK and Europe in the event of economic weakness. So there's a lot of global factors at play - which is I think at the heart of May's cack handed attempt to keep close ties. I'm not sure why you think we could destroy the EU. Perhaps of course things will look quite different after tonight/tomorrow if there is a big nationalist vote in many countries which would weaken the EU considerably to the point where they be fearful of loosing power in their own countries be forced to be more flexible with the UK. I won't mention the remain and reform option cos Chang's blood will boil over

in 300 (?) BC your 'nation' was the humans and everyone outside barbarians - or even non-human.

... someone has to tell Americans what to think

They've previously voted against no-deal.

A couple of questions: 1. Is it possible that qi of the citizens/people just means what we might call human qi - as in qi experienced in people as distinct to the rest of nature? 2. I found this translation of a later section: By essence is meant the essence of qi. When qi follows the Dao there is birth. With birth there is awareness. From awareness comes knowing. With knowing the limit is reached. Doesn't this resolve the relationship between qi and jing?

So ... May is going. But what will her replacement do any different I wonder.

Tories in free-fall. Labour in the doldrums.