Apech

Good thread by the way I don't practice Nei Dan but have gone through in depth both Wang Mu 'Foundations of Internal Alchemy' and Damo Mitchell's 'White Moon on the Mountain Peak' just so I would have some basic understanding. Wang Bi's Yi Jing commentaries also mention briefly the idea that qi condenses into jing at conception and then slowly dissipates through qi - shen sensory activity. With regard to the original question I think actually the first thing that would be experienced as jing is replenished is not the dramatic effects of rejuvenation but more a kind of grounding in your subtle and physical bodies which leads to more vigour generally, mental strength and a kind of more open gentler feeling about things because of a reduction in neurotic activity. This would be reliant on properly laying the foundations i.e. overcoming obstructions in meridians and restoring organ function to balance and equilibrium. If you just try to 'retain' that is stop jing leakage then you risk a pressure cooker effect which eventually blows the lid off After this the first physical result would be I think the clarity of the whites of the eyes - the blue white you see in children - hair growth (including eyebrows), improved endocrine function, joint lubrication and better digestion and excretion .

I think I may speak for many when I say - what the hell???

Well, I for one try to just ask questions for clarification and I kind of assumed that was the whole point. Doesn't Jeff welcome some query or challenge? He always seems ok with it when I chat with him.

Just to be clear I wasn't arguing against offering help in terms of advice of various kinds or views on what was happening to people. I am pretty sure you are right about Sean's reaction. I also wasn't suggesting 'censorship' but just caution. It's not people with 'slogans and chants' that would be some kind group protest - it's just people expressing themselves which is what you would expect in General Discussion. There is no rally - this is DBs - and if you are going to bring up the 'early stage' just think how mild all this is compared to then. Facts over feelings is exactly it - what else?

Hi Dawei, I don't think there is anything that could be characterised as an 'anti-movement' and I think its important to get away from the paranoia of group mentality. Certainly there are those DBs who are skeptical, my self among them, but that's the whole point of DBs and General Dis. - to be a forum for discussing such things. There are some who have tried working with Jeff and got a negative reaction and give their own accounts of this - equally there seem to be a number of very positive responses. I know its not for me - but am slightly intrigued and baffled by some of the 'explanations' such as the OP and I like to query them partly to see if I understand what is being said (in the case of this thread no chance ). Over the years there have been a number of quite popular or dominant practices like Kunlun, KAP and Stillness Movement - some of which have resulted in heated debate pro and anti (did I mention Mo Pai ... no I didn't and I won't :)) - and there have been some practitioners who teach or heal over the internet without meeting in person and so on. But I think Jeff is one of the most active in terms of 'remote transmission' (can I use that phrase?) and thus it is something that members and newbies can latch on to quite easily. My personal concern about new people is that we seem to get a steady stream of people with energy and emotional problems who end up here having read Mantak Chia (for some reason especially him) or some such - seems to me they are quite vulnerable and also new to the site (obviously). I always feel that any advice or help offered should be very cautious and mild until we get to know more about that person - given their possible psycho-somatic condition - as there is always a risk of well intentioned 'help' making things worse for them. This is not directed at Jeff particularly although he is a frequent offerer of assistance - and would apply to any of us - I would greatly prefer, but realise this is not up to me but perhaps Sean, for there to be a period of acclimatisation for new members before the offer of direct intervention of any kind is made. Just a thought.

To keep you entertained is our only purpose

Are you sure ...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2017/sep/25/buddhist-fangsheng-mercy-release-cruel-wild-animals What is it they say about the path to hell being paved with good intentions??????

Accusations? Not by me. Its just all over my head on the levels stuff so the OP was next to meaningless. Discussion ensued this being the General Discussion section and all. Just what is to be expected on DBs.

If you post something enigmatic in General Discussion people are going to ask questions for clarification - that's only natural.

I didn't say I was offended! I said its ad hominem and thus against the rules of DBs. I don't do offended.

Jeff, The last part of this post is borderline reportable - you posted your OP in General Discussion - a point I have made to you before - and thus you must expect discussion and contrary points of view. It is a rule here on DBs that you may attack the other posters point of view or ideas but not them personally (i.e. ad hominem) - to call anything CT has said 'passive aggressive' is both incorrect and demeaning to him since he has only stated his opinion (and actually backed it up with coherent argument) whether you agree with him or not is irrelevant - there is no authority position here on DBs as it is a 'level playing field' and trust that it will remain so.

So glad I don't have to call you Mr. S. Guru.

Apech - end of term result 0/10 - must try harder.

So .... it's not you

OK Jeff I don't wish to be pedantic - even though the term super-guru does appear in the OP in brackets and not parenthesis - so I assumed it was some kind of defined concept in your system. I think you have to accept you are making an enormous claim for a fellow DB - that he (or she!) has spent a year at some enormously 'high' level and still resides beyond the level of what any of our 'favourite gurus' might be at. I can't answer for everyone else but I know that many DBs have no teacher while others , like myself, do have a teacher, but I don't have anything like a 'favourite guru' which sounds like something from the New Age Spiritual supermarket to me. And it might surprise you to learn that I genuinely have no interest in how high he has climbed up the proverbial mountain - I am only interested to receive authentic teachings which avoid subjective self judgements. Thank you for your offer of giving me a comparison - but I assume you mean directly and not through words and as usual I will reject your offer as I am only interested in understanding what you were communicating in the OP. You presumably thought this whole issue was important enough to let us all know about it - so to respect your wish I am trying to grasp what exactly you are saying. For instance: "What people often call consciousness has a zero level, then many levels/layers of relative form and astral stuff, and then beyond that are the various formless realms." Am I right in assuming that by 'zero level' you mean something like base-consciousness or underlying sentience or similar? Also I am not sure what 'astral stuff' means and how that is different to the other levels and layers of relative form. And sorry to be thick but how can there be various formless realms - if there are different realms then they must have defining characteristics surely - so I'm a bit puzzled by this. Lastly when you say this member lived at a very high level for a year - do you mean internally? or in a cave somewhere or were they carrying on their daily life as well? Just trying to get a clearer picture. Thanks.

If you mean Sogyal Rinpoche - then perhaps it is worth noting that the whole point about him was that he wasn't actually a qualified Lama and rather than receive proper training had gone to a Catholic school - so it is still worth checking the authenticity of claims.

Is it another turning?

Jeff, Perhaps you could unpack the super-guru concept for us.

Ha ha - this is more accurate than you might think.

Ah so its something like just over 10% of the world population - that's all I wanted to know i.e. where that figure came from.

I'm not sure as yet that there is enough information to get confused. But I wasn't really asking you to 'out' someone - I can see why that might be difficult.

Yes but where do you get 785 million from?

Jeff, With the greatest respect (and since you chose to post this is General Discussion which clearly exists to discuss things) while deduce from the 'thanks' received for this post some people understand it - from my perspective it just says 'someone I know not who, has done something I know not what' - as your explanation of levels/layers is well beyond me it really does not serve the purpose intended 'to highlight accomplishment' since I still don't know what this accomplishment is and who it is who accomplished it. If you are talking to a specific group who already know the context of your post should it be in General Discussion - or otherwise would you care to explain what this is all about? Thanks.

You need to supply names and addresses for verification But seriously - who are these 785 million???