Apech

Good luck with your delusion folks.

So a future fuelled by bitterness and resentment. Jolly good. I think you've got this completely wrong. Pretty soon the Leavers will realise they were sold a dud and pray for a compromise. Leave camp = no plan, no future = resentment and racial tension. Smashing, great.

He's resigned as leader of UKIP - and we don't need him - he's a low grade twat.

It is rather astonishing, to me in any case, that we now have a 'Remain' Prime Minister and the complete annihilation of the 'Leave' leaders - Boris, Gove, Leadsom (who she?), Fararge ... all gone, and IDS invisible as ever. So we have 'Brexit means Brexit' May in charge. Is this some kind cosmic balancing 'winning equals loosing' thing - or does it support what I maintained all along that the Leave movement was just a load of emotional hogwash put forward by a bunch of lightweights - which just happened to capture the public mood for something to change. I know Karl is going to say he doesn't care who is in charge as long as we leave the EU - but then there are signs already there of a some kind of a deal has already been struck between our bunch and Merkel - and ironically Brexit seems to have caused a pro EU swing in the rest of Europe and a move away from the far right. It seems very comfortable to me. Expect very little to change - especially migration rules.

@Nungali I formally challenge you to write about this subject without any block quotes from wikipedia. I demand satisfaction. *slaps cheek with glove then says ouch realising it's his own cheek*. Anyway why are we discussing the late Bronze Age/Early Iron age when our Lord Lois opened a thread on Atlantis?

As I said above I can't do this quote thing. There is certain evidence (although I would have to dig for references) of contact and trade between the Indus Valley Culture and Mesopotamia. The origin of the Aryan culture is of course disputed but whatever AM theory is right it seems certain to me that there was a lot of integration with late Harrapan and the Aryan tribes. For instance the Saraswati River is the most mentioned river in the Rg Veda and geologist have identified a dried up river valley flowing parallel to the Indus which dried up about 1900 BC - while the date of the Rg Veda is usually given as 1200 BC - suggesting much longer periods of settling and integration.

As a general point guys - I can't cope with these long posts with interspersed responses in quotes so there's probably lots of stuff I could respond to but I just scrolled past. The Duat If that quote is from Wiki then I have to say it is excellent - cos I wrote it !!!!! What I obviously didn't mention is that the Duat is both within the body of Nut and the body of Geb. This is a difficult idea for us to hold because we have become terribly literal. The reason for this, by my interpretation, that the Duat refers to a kind of inner space which exist within everything - produced by the penetration of the waters of Nun of all existence - that is the void permeates creation. get it? So it is the same space that we enter in dreams, in shamanic experiences and so on. An inner realm. I could say more but it would have nothing to do with Atlantis.

Duat literally means 'star realm'. the glyphs in the middle right - a star in a circle and the letter 't' as an ending = Dw3t i.e. Duat.

Ho ho.

I think perhaps we need to differentiate between two different views. One would be the authenticity of Plato's Atlantis and the other would be the idea that prior to recorded history was there something which we would call civilisation i.e. some kind of social organisation, widespread trade, sophisticated thinking, some technology and so on. And that this later was at some point before recorded history destroyed - but that remnants persisted which explain the similarities in things like myth and architecture across the world. Given that modern humans - with the same brain capacity as us and so on - are said to have existed from maybe 180,000 years ago and recorded history accounts for maybe the last 6,000 years (choose your own figure from 12,000 - 4,000) it does beg the question what exactly were we up to all that time and why did similar river based civilisations spring up in Mesopotamia, Egypt, Indus Valley and China at roughly the same period. And then there's the old favourite Gobekli Tepe and the proposed sudden invention of both megalith construction and agriculture - which makes no intuitive sense (to me). I think we can more or less dismiss Plato's story about Atlantis as a political allegory - but that does not mean he was not drawing on extant myth and oral traditions in the first place. So even here there may be something useful to consider. But I don't see any reason to dismiss, at least as an idea the existence of more ancient history which is more or less lost to us. The trouble is that this 'theory' is not in the hands of historians and archeologists but in the hands of Hancock and Bauval et. al. - and one reason for this is the rather closed minded nature of the academic community - but mostly it is because those writers are not researchers and fail to do the right thing - which is to find the evidence and eliminate alternate explanations. Which is quite annoying. Much as I enjoy listening to them - as I do like listening to David Icke and so on - just for entertainment - I would prefer for some people to do some serious work on this area.

You have shape shifted into a gorilla - are you a Druid?

Yeah I quite like Bauval though he is a complete showman and a bit of an egotist. But it's interesting how the more mainstream people, having first thought that the 'orion Correlation Theory' quite interesting quickly scuttled away when they found it was a raging controversy. There is nothing at all outlandish to suggest that the Egyptians (like the Vedic and Chinese cultures) put a lot of focus on an 'as above so below' /microcosm - macrocosm correlation. I think this is practically universal and we must assume as an idea it originated somewhere. Where we don't know. The Egyptians interest in stars seems to be two fold. In terms of star mapping they were mainly interested in time - that is charting the hours of night - because the successful progress of the sun god was dependent on navigating certain obstacles - so knowing when these events were occurring was essential - so the right ceremonies could be conducted. In terms of certain stars - they were representative of deities. And has been mentioned the dead king aspired to become like one of them. They divided the sky north from south because the northern (in the northern hemisphere) is dominated by the Ursa Major which has the distinct feature of not rising or setting below the horizon. They just rotate round the astral north. As such they are imperishable that is they are not born and they don't die. The southern constellations - most notably Orion and Sirius do set and rise an thus are related to the ideas around birth and death. Sahu - which Legon points out is called the Toe Star - probably refers to one of the stars of Orion - but as a specific star probably a decan star - that is a time marker - and not the constellation as a whole - but given it is called 'Toe' it has to somebodies foot (yes/no) and so that does not discount the whole constellation also being thought of as Osiris/Orion. If you make a number of reasonable assumptions - that the Giza Pyramids were probably erected on sites already sacred (as has been shown to happen all over the world), that the stars of Sirius and Orion have a relation to death and being reborn after death, that the 'belt' of Orion is probably a euphemism for his phallus and thus connected with magic phallus created by Isis to conceive Horus - then the idea that the pyramids were placed so as to represent the cosmic order perceived in the stars on earth - it doesn't seem at all far fetched. The article linked to also quotes from the Pyramid texts - and while we should remember that these date from the end of the Fifth dyn. and thus maybe 150 years after the Great Pyr. (standard dating) - what is clear from the work of Allen et. al. is that the pyramid is a structure which is intended to map the underworld and as a means for transforming the king into a star. Internally it is a set of chambers in which the various stages of this transformation process took place. If you read Jeremy Naydler he presents a convincing argument that this process was not just for the dead but also a kind a shamanic journey for the living (to practice dying if you like - see the Heb Sed festival ).

My front end is looking good thanks.

Depends whether you think having access to the single market is important - free movement is a condition.

Gatito is very naughty.

Did you mean ... 'you are an absolute ________' ?

Karl, I am the Absolute I thought you knew that.

@Karl I agree it lacks depth but what do you expect from a ten minute video. However I am pleased to think that unlike Chang you actually watched it before commenting. Most Caspian Report vids are concise summaries of middle east politics - as such they are more of an background info resource than a complete picture. Agreeing with their conclusions is not necessary as I am sure you would agree only reading and listening to views that support your own is the path to small minded ignorance.

Did you watch it to the end? I doubt it - it predicted the disintegration of the EU (and had done so before in 2011) which ought to please you. Watch things, read things before commenting - a good rule. Why would I care about the cost of french wine???? This will help you understand: ...watch from 7:26s to the end. And by the way the Caspian Report is a very good channel.

I think it might be appropriate to refer to him from now by his full title The Right Honourable The Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon GCMG, CH, KBE, PC

I can't think of a better way.

Fair enough.

That's not a bad call - but surely he's very pro-EU isn't he?

@Steve Sweet dreams