Apech

There is a fundamental problem with the western study of both Daoism and Buddhism. That is the analysis on the basis of a putative pure or original form which is usually thought of as being expressed in certain texts e.g. the TTC and Zhuangzi for Daoism and the Pali Canon for Buddhism. This way of thinking actually comes from the European Enlightenment when Christian scholars wished to throw off the dogma of the Catholic Church by going back to 'original' Gospels in Greek and Aramaic. If you take the broader view of Daoism that is that it is very ancient beginning with the I Ching sages (FuXi and so on) and the Dao or way was an expression adopted to express the nature of the changes, part of divinatory and shamanist practices of very earliest periods of history - then texts like the TTC just become particular expressions later down the line responding to the conditions of the time - it is a Daoist Text but not the Daoist text. Using it to project back some kind of original and 'pure' form is not legitimate. To use the case in point - if Tang Dynasty Daoists on examining the idea of karma and apply it to their practice then karma becomes a Daoist concept, in the same way as Dao becomes a Buddhist concept in the hands of the Ch'an and Zen Buddhists.

Just for balance a glimpse into the mind of Donald Trump:

Here's a good one:

he's more than slightly bonkers but he says some interesting things ...

No organisation at all at a macro level?

Ah family values! Can't we move on from there. Especially as these days families ... as in married or otherwise stable partnerships are getting rarer and rarer. And in any case when it was imperative (as in my parents day) that people remained together the inner tensions were palpable in most marriages. Forget the family - the only real unit is the individual.

Oh stop it you two.

I'm not talking about imposed order - I'm talking about new way(s) of living which emerge to meet the conditions of our times. Just as we were hunter gatherers, pastoralists, agriculturalists, feudalists and so on ... these things worked pro tem and only arose because of the conditions of the time. Well the conditions have moved on from any pre-existing political models but there is a gap ... a kind ignorance in us because the establishment is doing everything it can to distract us from any new ideas. Even environmentalism is a muddle.

It's not so much who these people are ... what they are supposed to believe ... it's that the political tide is going into a kind of chaotic flux. The mainstream parties are getting a kicking. This throws up random people like Trump who not only cross party lines but tend to deconstruct the lines themselves. I think this is the interesting thing - and is the same reason people are supporting old style socialists ... and its even more interesting that its happening both sides of the Atlantic. Old orders break down - leading to temporary chaos - then a new order kicks in. No matter what you think of socialism, sympathetic or no, how can it possibly present the right set of solutions to the problems of 2015 - 2020 and beyond. It can't because it's very design was to address what was arising when Feudalism fell. The very idea that people can and will come together in the way socialism predicts must now be something for the pages of history. But that doesn't mean that people cannot think constructively about how to live in a way which seeks to give everyone a happy, fulfilled and creative life.

That's kind of where I was going with this. But a bit deeper - I think there is weltschmerz going on. People are sick of a kind of boredom and frustration. Usually this is a prelude to big war. People search for meaning in the strangest places. Mr. Trump being one.

Ok but he calls himself a social democrat and has been around for years (rather like Corbyn) and is speaking to packed halls of excited people - just like Corbyn. It's unlikely that all of these people are dyed in the wool socialists ... and they both seem to have old fashioned approaches which you would have thought completely outmoded. They are not particularly great orators or charismatic. So what do you think people are looking for?

and Bernie Sanders?

Ok just add to the mix - why do people like Donald Trump? (for Brits Nigel Farage)?

So somebody explain why he is so popular - like Bernie Sanders in the US - at this point in history. I will be giving prizes.

Just an update on the great progress ...

You're reminding me of someone else.

I got siddhis from Iron Shirt:

Just do regular practice. Make it a routine. Don't think about it so much. Just do it.

Active gongs at Mo Pai wedding.

Cupboard, disdain, mud, ink, journal.

@Daeluin ... respect!

Naughty.

Hardly.

To be frank I haven't learned anything at all from discussion with you. So perhaps I should stop.

I'm not sure what you are saying is not correct. There's a couple of your assumptions I would question. "Its a feeling, it's real to you and it's real to me that you tell me you have it, but giving it a label is an attempt to make a concrete object out of nothing." A feeling is real - it's a feeling. It seems to me that you only accept 'concrete objects' as real. And why 'out of nothing' - a feeling is nothing? It has no correlate in physical changes in your nervous system? If something affects you and changes your being - your body even - then it what sense is it unreal? "Kundalini then is a feeling or sensation that gives rise to a number of non specific symptoms." I would say the sense of these terms comes from the fact that many people can recognise them once they have had them. Before that you can read or listen to talks about it and try to form a mental picture of them. But as soon as you have the experience you realise for yourself what was being talked about because you recognise it. Of course some people may decide that they have had these experiences when in fact they haven't and then the term gets debased (as often happens in New Age thinking) - this is true but it does not alter the fact that many people have genuine realisation. This is why I mentioned before specific symptoms and checklists for K. Syndrome which are not 'non specific symptoms' - since they are specific ... in the same way as measles or chickenpox are recognisable.