Apech

I'm going to sit in that empty room

http://www.submarino.com.br/produto/5563042/vodka-sueca-absolut-apech-1000ml

Yeah .. but ... but .. its got real women's boobies!!!!!

Is their rilly a Fiahfaux iddon thit chicks yore spilling? Cuz I donnut nede it.

Is their rilly?

Well I would make distinction between 'seeing no thing' and 'seeing nothing' ... but thanks for the quote it makes more sense now.

Got a link for that quote?

Seeing emptiness is not the same as seeing nothing.

Is that Ear, Nose, Froat and Pickle. ?

I liked that till the last line.

He was heavy but interesting I think ... shame he's no longer around .... (or is he)??

Are we going to be told how long he is suspended for? and what exactly he was suspended for? No mod log last time I looked.

Oh yuk!!!! its got pics of women's boobies.

Is your score too low or too high???? BTW do we know how long MPG is gone for? And has he been suspended by his thumbs or his dangly bits?

@Buddhist reasoning and debate - vigorous debate and challenge is important I think, but I would like to see it done with a spirit of mutual help and support. Quite often on here it seems more like a simple argument. @Tibetan-Ice ... if I can address the 'pure Dzogchen' idea by comparison with mahamudra. There are two uses of the term mahamudra. One is in tantra/mantrayana and refers more or less exclusively to the final realisation. So enlightenment, if you like is called mahamudra. The other is in the so called 'indirect lineage' transmission (Maitripa and others to Gampopa) where mahamudra is used for the whole approach to sitting cultivation and so on. I suspect that dzogchen can be used similarly to refer to either the ultimate state of Great perfection or to the various approaches to it. So if you say you are a dzogchenpa then it does not necessarily mean you are a realised being ... it could mean that you are following a set of teachings and a dzogchen lama. I think it is very unlikely that any practitioner of dzogchen does this with no inclusion of tantric practices ... as they are not as mutually exclusive as you seem to suggest. The main difference would be I think whether you were a monk or not. As a monk the vinaya vows would prevent certain tantric practices. In fact I would say that most practitioners will practice sutryana (mahayana), mantrayana and mahamudra/dzogchen all together. I believe this idea of exclusiveness and the one true way is a western fantasy brought about by remnants of Judeo-Christian thought.

I would like to see that change. I find that people who actually practice are much gentler in their approach than those who just interested in intellectual form. Which is why are asked if people actually practiced. So much interest in Dzogchen terminology must be based in something I guess but I don't know what. It is not ok to disparage other paths ... in fact it is a root downfall in vajrayana. I would like to see some true Buddhist values in this sub forum.

That its a good post and (often) that I agree with what was said. Or sometimes its witty and makes me laugh. Or it´s a post by Marblehead and I think he needs cheering up.

So is there a pure Dzogchen which is different to any other kind of dzogchen?

Fair enough I was just interested. ... and i didn't want details just the general idea.

Declared by who?

Almost every thread on here about Buddhism (and a few which are not) end up with a discussion on dzogchen (even without our late lamented friend alwayson/romzongfan). I just find it a bit odd if no one actually practices it. Also I feel left out cos I know nothing about it - and I may add I don't really want to know that much

Ok but I think Steve will answer for himself. (also we have all probably gone on retreats on this and that ... it doesn't mean it has become our main practice.) ALSO also there is nothing loaded in my question I am just asking ...since everyone talks so much about Dzogchen who here actually practices it.

I mean someone who practices within a recognised lineage teaching of Dzogchen. For instance for comparison I am practicing the Kagyu ngondro and sadanha(s) (which involve mahamudra meditiation) as taught by a lama who holds the lineage ... I meet him about once a year for guidance other wise a practice accoding to his instructions and based on his lungs and empowerments on my own.