Apech

Just some thoughts on the Trinity (this reflects how I was taught by a Christian Hermeticist): The Trinity , three persons in one, is an ancient idea or way of looking at things which appears in the pre-Classical religions as well as Christianity. I don't mean this is a Zeitgeist kind of a way, I am not saying that this invalidates Christianity but actually it affirms it. The Egyptians, for instance, often grouped gods in father, mother, child trinities and also there was the sun with a three-fold soul. The experience of the presence of the persons of the Trinity is profound, moving, joyful and ecstatic, so in analysing the meaning I am not trying to make it into a dry philosophy but just to elaborate the concepts behind the Trinity (as I see them) for clarities sake. The idea of God as a person, or three persons, is interesting. It also provokes a reaction from many who prefer the impersonal ideas of energy, consciousness or spirit. So God as a person marks out the Abrahamic religions in this respect. But we have to understand what 'person' means. It is derived from a word for 'mask' and was the mask worn by actors in the Greek and Roman theatre. So the actor would speak through a mask which depicted the character he was playing. Some derive the word from 'through sounding' as it refers to the voice of the actor coming through the mask. Either way the idea is that what you see is the mask, behind the mask is the actor (Spirit) which appears in certain forms to you. The three persons, or characters in this case are the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a kind of disguised version of the female Shekinah, or the immanent world soul, that is the presence of Spirit in being. Beyond, but not beyond in space, but behind perhaps the Trinity is the Godhead, the ineffable absolute about which it is difficult, impossible in fact to speak directly. We go to the Godhead via the Trinity and also within the Trinity to the Father via the Son. There is no Father without a Son, nor Mother either. Until a child is born people are not 'parents'. So Father and Son (and Holy Spirit) spring into being at once. This is why, I think, it say the 'word' the Logos, the Son was with God in the beginning. If we say God the Father is the originating power which creates everything, which brings into being the whole cosmos, then the Son is the Light, and light is about communication and information from point to point within that cosmos, it's structure in other words. So the creative power and the structure of that which created sponge into being together, as does the Holy Spirit which is the dynamic within this relationship. So we can say, power, form and function are 'one'. Except they are not 'one in the sense of the same but one in that they arise as a consequence of each other. The Trinity then to my way of thinking is a non-dualism. So you could say there is one actor, the Absolute, the hidden Godhead and it has three masks, three personas, through which it is expressed. If someone were to object to this saying, that it is not a person but an impersonal energy or some such then the answer is that you cannot constrain the Absolute by saying it is absolute in everything but it cannot be a 'person'. the absolute can be either a person or a not-person, or neither or both. If you constrain it then it is not absolute, it is limited to all that is not a person.

I don't quite agree with this. The 'word' is Logos which is Christ which is the Son. or that is my understanding.

Insomnia ... so just wanted to post this: So a great wind and tongues of flame ... this is the Holy Spirit ... surely.

you don't know nothing ...

I agree with that ... but that does not = physical world does it. Anyway I think the Trinity is a good subject to explore a little more ... but its late here and I'm going to bed so tomorrow is another day.

I was wondering if maybe it doesn't feel right to Steve because what you have posted is bollocks. Sorry to use that word but I couldn't think of another one having read most of this stuff.

gate to all wonders well if you call it that, my dear, feel free to enter.

Even this is false Young man, what do you mean false! They cost a fortune!

In what sense is the Holy Spirit the physical world - I don't quite get that - can someone explain a bit more?

Sorry you feel that way. I don't object to the occasional cross reference and maybe I jumped in a little too soon there but there's a ton the threads on Jesus and Buddhism and we don't need another one. If you have checked out you won't read this ... but if you do please feel free to contribute along the lines of developing ideas about Christian Mysticism.

Hey guys, I don't want this thread to turn into another Buddhism/Christian thread ... I agree these may be important points but is there any chance you can either keep that discussion short and sweet or elsewhere on another thread/ or PMs possibly? Thanks. A.

Typical ... you wait 2000 years and 50 show up at once!

It would be good if people said why they felt the picture had spiritual impact instead of just posting I think. It would be more interesting.

Cheese ... now your talking ... have we had a thread on cheese?

its about posting pictures which people think have spiritual content .. or that's what I think it is about.

We've moved on .. we're on Botticelli now ..

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 16.7 Jesus' departure was necessary so that the Holy Spirit would come.

the white UFO* is so elegant beside those with pastel shades.

It was well worth the plane flight and the hire car and hotel expenses just to get a plastic US flag (broken) - thanks.

Sorry Marbles if I give it back will you forgive me?

The Johannine succession and the quote from John "what is it to thee if he tarry till I come" always stuck in my mind. So I think the main transmission was to John and this was the beginning of the new phase of the lineage ... since Christ was the culmination. So in this sense the second coming is end point of a new cycle of teachings post the life of Jesus. Beyond that I have to thought .. tell me what you think.

I think what I was trying to say is that if you simply waited for eons without any spiritual searching or cultivation then would that lead to the same conclusion as 'enlightenment' - its just a thought and I don't want to go too off topic.

Deadragon, I think maybe you have over defined your goal(s), worthy though some of them are. I think you should just continue whatever practice suits for now and look around for a path that for you has heart. That is you feel a strong connection to. Then seek out proper guidance and define your goals in terms of that instead of listing abilities like living on little or no food. I don't think it is likely that you understand now what your goals in terms of specific aims are or should be.

@sonofthegods I see a continuity between Christ and the pagan traditions. Some of the late Neo-Platonics were still pagan (Proclus is it?) and the pagan world held great wisdom. Even the Church Fathers cited Hermes Trismegistus and other ante-diluvian masters as understanding the trinity … so you make a good point here I think. @Jeff yes Adam as Father-mother … well just reverse the letters and you get Ma - Da which is pretty clear really! On the evolution thing I think we need to make a distinction between what would occur passively through evolution as a kind of automatic effect and what happens through spiritual work - which is something greater and more significant. @Dominicus thanks for sharing your experience(s) and I think the nature of Grace is something we should discuss further, perhaps you could tell us more. I remember that hermit who lives above St. Anthony's church in the Egyptian desert said that 'beyond peace lies grace' or something to that effect.